Boiler Insurance?

[stevec59]

Hi,
Sorry if this has been asked before, did try a search but couldn’t find anything, so here goes..

I have a Vaillant Turbomax Pro 28e (installed Jan 2002, so 6 years old),
I have always had cover with Domestic & General and we pay extra to Have a Vaillant engineer, I have just received my renewal notice, next year they want £197.88, we could down grade to not haveing a Vaillant engineer, that would take it down to @ £168, Thing is D&G no longer will cover my boiler for Scale Damage, when I had my Boiler filled, the guy did put in one of those in line water scaler things..
Since having the boiler we have had quite a bit done:-

The 'Plate'(I think the hot water wasn't getting that hot), apparently this is quite common
Gas Solenoid (when this went it also took out the Circuit board)
Air Release Valve, apparently this is quite common
Diverter Valve (switches from heating to hot water)

So, it has been worth having and I think I should continue, thing is £197 is a lot of money, any alternatives?

British Gas Level 100 £108 + £50 for repair OR £144 and no access.

I have been to uswitch and there is a company 'Smart and Cook' , never heard of them, £100 doesn't include Annual service (the ones above do), I guess an annual service would be @ £40?, So I guess British Gas..

Any thoughts


Thanks..

Steve

 

[gas4you]

Annual service is more likely to be around £60 for a proper one.

A lot of these independant company's use D&G to underwrite the scheme as well.

 

[stevec59]

Thanks Dave, I guess its British Gas then, how are BG these days? They did have a poor reputation for not doing things quickly etc..

I did look at Homeserve, but I don't think they are much cop.

Steve

 

[Rob]

Its a bit of a gamble whatever you do. Personally i think your better off sticking £200 in a jar every year instead of taking out insurance. If you dont use it for 3 or 4 years then....

This is what money experts advise anyway.

 

[gas4you]

I personally rate homeserve worse than BG.

As said before BG are a huge organisation, but you only get to hear of the 'jobs gone wrong' as this makes better news. I'm not saying I think they are good, but trying to put a perspective on it.

It will also depend on the luck of the draw as to whether you get a good engineer who wants to do his job well.

If you had one of the BG guys who post on here you would be laughing.

Robs suggestion is well worth some thought though, as perhaps asking Vaillant about an extended warranty/service contract type scheme.

 

[nickso]

Its a bit of a gamble whatever you do. Personally i think your better off sticking £200 in a jar every year instead of taking out insurance. If you dont use it for 3 or 4 years then....

This is what money experts advise anyway.

that would depend entirely on the state of your heating system. a gambling man might get away with £200 per year but whats to stop you spending it and not even bothering, or forgetting, to get the boiler serviced even. as we all know parts prices for newish boilers can be pretty horrific, £200 doesnt go very far these days.

OP. be aware that BG wioll not necessarily cover you for scale damage either.

 

[topgazza]

I've had BG for a few years now..couple of call outs and they were very efficient. Not had a serious problem though

 

[stevec59]

Thanks for all the replies Glad to see so many, I will have to look through BGas T&C regarding scale, I did see something in there about a 'Power Flush' (poss £450?), but I think that is something that they might say that you need, So I guess if something went wrong and it looked like scale problem they would replace the part on the understanding that you had a flush.

I did have a flush when the new boiler was fitted, so I would hope not to need another one.


Steve

 

[Gasguru]

All these insurance schemes are a scam.

Very very few heating systems are installed properly and the quality of boilers is at an all time low, they are apt to insuring obsolete "museum pieces".

It's just not possible to make a profit insuring boilers for the price they take you on at.

Hence very ambiguous T & C's.

A significant number of faults are caused by poor installations/sludge/scale and hence are not covered by the warranty.

Next you have the "financially not viable to repair" clause or " parts no longer available" clause. Both are used as get outs despite parts actually being available (even though sometimes it's significant labour to fit them).

The reality is all insurance companies are becoming more ruthless. They will often take on the system sometimes without any proper inspection. The first sign of trouble and you are hit with the "powerflush ruse" or the "parts are obsolete" etc or the engineers are so incompetent that eventually after numerous unsuccessful visits you succumb to a new boiler at their vastly inflated price.

Also bear in mind the "annual service" is nothing of the sort...think of it more as a guest appearance. It's a turn up, wave a flue probe around and walk out effort. Have a read through the manufacturers literature for a typical service schedule on a modern condensing boiler - it can take an hour or more.

Furthermore many insurance companies employ complete numpties since the pay and conditions is appalling.

So whatever you pay per month it's just the start. At some stage you'll be blagged for a powerflush (nearly always unnecessaary) and in the end blagged for a new boiler.

By all means take out insurance but stand your ground; I see too many customers ripped off after paying thousands in premiums to these charlatans.

Yes they can work out OK but it involves a lot of luck. Consider carefully.

 

[topgazza]

Have to agree with the basis of what you are saying...it is a case of buyer beware. I have a unvented system and that complexity alone makes it worthwhile having cover for it...I have the boiler and plumbing insurance because of that. I could fix almost everything else bar the boiler on a standard central heating system but not the pressurised system. Not even sure if I would be allowed to anyway.

In my case I'm happy the pay the insurance and savvy enough to spot a scam and stand my ground as you say...ambiguity works both ways and there is such a thing as an unreasonable contract that protects you. They can't service a boiler and give it a thumbs up and then 2 months later say it is unrepairable when a problem occurs...well they can of course....but if nothing has been mentioned before then they are on shaky ground. If I had a trusted decent central heating guy , local, who was trained on unvented then I would use him every time...but I don't..as far as I know

Also with this sort of insurance....dodgy ones excepted...it at least gives an element of peace of mind...you never know otherwise that when you call that plumber in Yellow Pages what you are going to get...Clint Eastwood with a big calculator or one of the decent guys we have here. Its a minefield out there and thats what insurance companies depend on of course......

 

[nickso]

ill have to answer a few of these statements lets imagine we are talking exclusively about BG

All these insurance schemes are a scam.

Very very few heating systems are installed properly and the quality of boilers is at an all time low, they are apt to insuring obsolete "museum pieces".

if its obsolete it should not be taken on. if it becomes obsolete on contract the customer is given options to do something about it, most dont.

It's just not possible to make a profit insuring boilers for the price they take you on at.

correct and they need to cross sell to make it viable. that doesnt mean you or i must take any other contracts on though.

Hence very ambiguous T & C's.

T+C's clearly written down on a piece of paper freely available to a customer is hardly ambiguous

A significant number of faults are caused by poor installations/sludge/scale and hence are not covered by the warranty.

and are clearly laid out in the T+C's as not covered. its not the science of rocketry is it? in reality many minor faults are just dealt with as it saves time and hassle. major faults are usually dealt with by sticking to the T+C's.

Next you have the "financially not viable to repair" clause or " parts no longer available" clause. Both are used as get outs despite parts actually being available (even though sometimes it's significant labour to fit them).

BG will rarely invoke a "not viable" situation, ive never seen that happen around here. the "no parts" one is usually lazy buggers who need the boot!

They will often take on the system sometimes without any proper inspection. The first sign of trouble and you are hit with the "powerflush ruse" or the "parts are obsolete" etc or the engineers are so incompetent that eventually after numerous unsuccessful visits you succumb to a new boiler at their vastly inflated price.

that is true in some respects. i doubt the majority of new contracts are inspected thoroughly. in reality it still boils down to the old T+C's, if its not covered then its not covered, no matter how good or bad the initial or subsequent inspection is.

many engineers are crap due to BG's woeful attitude towards them. they need to change that quick. the managing director is a moron so its not likely to happen IMO.

Also bear in mind the "annual service" is nothing of the sort...think of it more as a guest appearance. It's a turn up, wave a flue probe around and walk out effort. Have a read through the manufacturers literature for a typical service schedule on a modern condensing boiler - it can take an hour or more.

its not called an annual service specifically because it depends on each boiler type. they have their own service procedures which i personally disagree with as it breeds laziness and also causes more calls for repairs.

Furthermore many insurance companies employ complete numpties since the pay and conditions is appalling.

the overtime rates are shockingly bad.....it gets on my tits and they still dont understand why no one works overtime ....time and a fifth

 

[The Baker]

Just an aside, but apparently BG suppliers can no longer get there hands on case seal for a Ideal Classic (BF) so BG left the boiler disconnected.

Now BG have enormouse buying powers but curiously could not get this part,

but,

this one man band, the likes of whom where rubbished by BG as Cowboy Plumbers in Last Years TV adverts, had the appliance running safely two hours later.

The whole thing stemmed from a pre maintainance contract inspection.

I grant you part part of the case seal was missing, but a to suggest a new boiler was the only alternative completely undoes all the good work that the majority of BG operatives do.

Tim

 

[nickso]

Just an aside, but apparently BG suppliers can no longer get there hands on case seal for a Ideal Classic (BF) so BG left the boiler disconnected.

Now BG have enormouse buying powers but curiously could not get this part,

but,

this one man band, the likes of whom where rubbished by BG as Cowboy Plumbers in Last Years TV adverts, had the appliance running safely two hours later.

The whole thing stemmed from a pre maintainance contract inspection.

I grant you part part of the case seal was missing, but a to suggest a new boiler was the only alternative completely undoes all the good work that the majority of BG operatives do.

Tim

did he use the correct case seal though? he might be happy to do that, BG cant.

 

[gas_man_gaz]

Just an aside, but apparently BG suppliers can no longer get there hands on case seal for a Ideal Classic (BF) so BG left the boiler disconnected.

Now BG have enormouse buying powers but curiously could not get this part,

but,

this one man band, the likes of whom where rubbished by BG as Cowboy Plumbers in Last Years TV adverts, had the appliance running safely two hours later.

The whole thing stemmed from a pre maintainance contract inspection.

I grant you part part of the case seal was missing, but a to suggest a new boiler was the only alternative completely undoes all the good work that the majority of BG operatives do.

Tim

did he use the correct case seal though? he might be happy to do that, BG cant.

no, silver tape

 

[gas4you]

Nickso, are you stacked out with work? I suggested to one customer today that they call BG in on a fixed price repair, Isar pcb, and they were told they couldn't look at it until mid-end January

Is it because of the bad OT rates you mentioned