Boiler pipes with tight bends near pump

[Builder787]

Hoping someone may be able to help,
The boiler in our house seems to have the pump & pipework squashed in above it. The pipes directly above the boiler have very tight bends and the water pump installed in them, which looks less than ideal to me. We had a plumber round who said we should rip out the all pipes and replace them, but another said they are not ideal but should be fine. I'd appreciate opinions as to whether the pipes are badly laid out or if they will be ok, as we're having a new boiler fitted, cos the heat exchanger failed in the old one , and could probably get them corrected if they're wrong..
(It's a conventional gas boiler linked to sealed system.)

**Pics attached showing pipes above downstairs boiler, and pipes in upstairs airing cupboard.**

Many thanks,

Untitled

• Builder787
• 7 Nov 2012
• 1

Untitled

• Builder787
• 7 Nov 2012
• 1

Untitled

• Builder787
• 7 Nov 2012
• 1

 

[dcawkwell]

The system is fine and will work.
It would have been more sensible to have the pump
near the hot water tank and just two pipes coming down to the boiler.
But then some plumbers are idiots and like to make things difficult for
themselves.

 

[Builder787]

Many thanks for taking a look... relieved to hear it should work ok, I was beginning to wonder if the tight bends were causing cavitation in the water or something, and could of caused the heat exchanger failure we had.

I was also told the pump is on the return and not the flow at the moment, which is non-standard (probably cos the system was converted from a gravity feed type years ago).. Would it be worth asking the plumber to move it onto the flow side when the new boiler goes in, or is there no benefit?

 

[mickyg]

you need to get that sorted. The open vent looks like it is on the positive side of the pump, lord knows where the cold feed is but is almost certainly not in the right place ! Best thing to do is get a sealed system boiler, that will solve most of the issues. Wouldnt hook a new boiler up to that though.

 

[CBF]

tbh it's a b1oody mess, it's not piped correctly in the airing cupboard unless something is capped off, the vent is on the flow into the cylinder & there is a 22mm man bypass but what is the open 15mm "bypass" for ?, yes i think the way it's piped prob had alot to do with a failed hex & if i was fitting a new boiler there is no way i'd fit it to that lot, new pump (fitted on the flow) & mid pos valve in the airing cupboard & get rid of all that on top of the boiler, also you will find the new boiler will req a min service diamention at the top of it & you won't have that at the moment, that really looks likes a diy install to me, imo the guy you had round that said it was ok wants showing the front door & never letting back in.

 

[Builder787]

Thanks for the advice.
The system is sealed with an expansion vessel and safety valve in the loft above the water tank. Is the 15mm bypass that you mention the one with a red valve on it?

The other small 15mm feed shown in the bottom left of the middle picture goes to a hot towel rail and is fed by the hot water loop, so comes on when the hot water tank is being heated.

 

[CBF]

no the bypass is the 22mm pipe that bends down from the flow to the ret with a gate valve (that has had the red head taken off), if it's a sealed system where is the filling loop & pressure gauge in the roof too ?, sealed system or not if you were employing me to replace the boiler i would walk away rather than leaving it like that above the boiler. if it is already a sealed system then replace the boiler with a system boiler the pump & expansion vessel will be built in to the boiler then all you need is to tidy the pipework on top of the boiler ie just two pipes going to the airing cupboard & fit a mid pos valve in the airing cupboard instead of the two zone valves

 

[Builder787]

Yes, the filling loop and pressure gauge are in the loft too, next to the expansion vessel.

I'll make sure the pipes above the boiler are re-done. I think the plumber may have been thinking he would sort out the pipes above boiler during the install, I'll check what his plans are. I'll also ask about the system boiler option.... interesting idea.

What's the advantage of the mid position valve over the two zone valves?

Your advice is much appreciated.. glad I queried this before the boiler went in...

 

[CBF]

there is no real advantage with the mid pos valve over the zone valves apart from only have one valve to wire or replace if something goes wrong, a system boiler would sort out alot of that pipework & get rid of the expansion vessel in the roof, the pressure relief valve would be built into the boiler so that would need to go to outside, abit of pipework alteration is going to tidy things up & make for a far more reliable system

 

[Builder787]

Cheers CBF... thanks for your help...
Have a great evening