Bonding gas meter.

[securespark]

It is actually that pipe which should be bonded.

Only if the steel pipe is the pipe going round the house, though.

 

[JohnW2]

Only if the steel pipe is the pipe going round the house, though.

That depends upon one's interpretation of the punctuation of the reg!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Punctuation or not, I was taught to connect to the metered pipe, as there may be poor continuity from the external pipe through the meter.

 

[JohnW2]

Punctuation or not, I was taught to connect to the metered pipe, as there may be poor continuity from the external pipe through the meter.

I would hope that everyone would agree. Indeed, if there is no electrical continuity through the meter, it is the upstream pipe (if any within the building), and only that pipe, which needs to be bonded.

However, as you know, because of the punctuation which has been used, the reg can be (and often is) interpreted as saying that, if there is a meter, the bonding must be on the consumer's side of that meter.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I would hope that everyone would agree. Indeed, if there is no electrical continuity through the meter, it is the upstream pipe (if any within the building), and only that pipe, which needs to be bonded.

However, as you know, because of the punctuation which has been used, the reg can be (and often is) interpreted as saying that, if there is a meter, the bonding must be on the consumer's side of that meter.

Kind Regards, John

Due to this confusion both sides of the meter are bonded in my house.
One of my rental flats had always been bonded on the supply side, when my new tenant asked for a credit meter, meter fitter would not do so until the bond was moved to the metered side which was difficult as the first tee was straight into the meter union.

 

[JohnW2]

Due to this confusion both sides of the meter are bonded in my house.

Same here, in the case of my water meter (which looks as if it might well not provide electrical continuity) (I don't have a gas meter) ...

The supply side quite clearly needs to be bonded, since it consists of 4 or 5 metres of (very touchable) exposed steel pipe which travels across the (low) cellar ceiling. As far as I'm concerned (and as far as the concept of main bonding is concerned), that's all that is required. However, just in case it ever gets 'inspected', to avoid any aggravation/argument, I've also bonded the internal copper pipework just on my side of the meter.

It seems daft that one has to expend time, effort, money and copper because some 'electricians' don't seem to understand the concept of main equipotential bonding, but such is life!

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

Well, the meter fitter is supposed to clip a jump lead across any time they break into the pipe, to avoid losing continuity. So if it's bonded down stream only and the meter is insulating, there could be a potential difference across it. The old pme outside tap issue, but with a better earthed incoming pipe to hold on to.

 

[SUNRAY]

I read the regs as bonding after the meter but before the first tee but I know there are other interpretations.

In another of my rentals we had a boiler replaced and the fitter teed between the meter and bond then marked the cert as a failure.

 

[JohnW2]

Well, the meter fitter is supposed to clip a jump lead across any time they break into the pipe, to avoid losing continuity. So if it's bonded down stream only and the meter is insulating, there could be a potential difference across it. The old pme outside tap issue, but with a better earthed incoming pipe to hold on to.

I'm not quite sure what your point is. Are you agreeing with me that (whatever the regs might be thought to say) the only sensible, appropriate and 'safe' place to bond is upstream of the meter, ideally at 'the point of entry' (so that the fitter can't break the pipe between the point of entry and the bond) - or are you saying something different?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I read the regs as bonding after the meter but before the first tee but I know there are other interpretations.

Yep, even though it makes absolutely no sense, that is one way of interpreting the reg (and the way many seem to interpret it) - but, as said, it is all down to interpretation of punctuation - which may or may not have appeared in print 'as intended'.

I dare say I will regret saying this but, as far as I am concerned, if/when there is a conflict between what the regs seem to require and what I regard as 'safe', the regs will get ignored!

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Yep, even though it makes absolutely no sense, that is one way of interpreting the reg (and the way many seem to interpret it) - but, as said, it is all down to interpretation of punctuation - which may or may not have appeared in print 'as intended'.

I dare say I will regret saying this but, as far as I am concerned, if/when there is a conflict between what the regs seem to require and what I regard as 'safe', the regs will get ignored!

Kind Regards, John

Equally I say that sometimes there are better ways.
In a college complex the water feed and main stop valve to a toilet building deliberately ran up the outside in a plastic enclosure to keep it 'out of harms way'. We elected to make the bond in the external enclosure for the same reason. The inspection said it had to be internal so we moved it and it looked horrible , within 2 days it was reported as overloaded [melting plastic] which turned out to be attacks with a lighter, so it looked even worse.

 

[SUNRAY]

I have seen a plastic underground feed, a brass main stop valve, and entirely internally plumbed with plastic. Oh and an earth clip on the plastic pipe.

 

[JohnW2]

I have seen a plastic underground feed, a brass main stop valve, and entirely internally plumbed with plastic. Oh and an earth clip on the plastic pipe.

I remember, decades ago, on one of the first plastic baths I'd ever seen or handled, there was an 'earthing terminal' (clearly marked as such) attached to the underside of the body of the plastic bath!

I seem to recall that, presumably for the benefit of complete idiots, the upcoming "18th ed" is to include an explicit statement that plastic pipes do not need to be 'bonded'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

No doubt it will say something like "need not be bonded", which actually implies a choice, instead of a more appropriate "plastic cannot be electrically bonded, it is plastic".

 

[JohnW2]

No doubt it will say something like "need not be bonded", which actually implies a choice, instead of a more appropriate "plastic cannot be electrically bonded, it is plastic".

No doubt.

I can't yet find (in the draft) anything about not bonding plastic pipes, but maybe I was thinking of this ....

... Metallic pipes entering the building having an insulating section at their point of entry need not be connected to the protective equipotential bonding.

Not only, per your prediction, does it say "need not be connected...", but the whole of 411.3.1.2 relates (only) to the required bonding of extraneous-c-ps, and if there is an 'insulating section at the point of entry', then there surely would be no extraneous-c-p to bond?

Kind Regards, John