British EU rebate

[AdamW]

I saw something on the BBC news last night. Apparently Germany pays £5Bn to the EU, France pays £1Bn to the EU, the UK pays £5Bn to the EU. The German population is (if memory serves correct) 100-110M, compared to our 60M. France's payment is so small because this is the net payment, and France gets loads of subsidies for its peasant farmers.

The rebate is £3Bn, therefore our net payment ends up at £2Bn. Blair himself says that we are paying 2.5 times as much already and without the rebate we would be paying 15 times as much, which is an even greater injustice than the BBC figures.

Now I read that Chirac wants us to make a "gesture" by forgoing our rebate. Despite the fact we already pay twice as much as he does, despite the fact we have a similarly-sized population and declining industry thanks to our inability to directly subsidise, or the brains to indirectly subsidise (have Police driving round in Rovers and Bedfords).

I think Blair is right to put his foot down on this one. Yes, stop the press, Adam agrees with Blair!

Any other views? Does anyone actually think we SHOULD scrap the subsidy? If so, what is your reason?

 

[Freddie]

Why does anybody have to pay into the EU ????

 

[AdamW]

Blair is now calling for a reassessment and restructuring of EU funding, especially CAP... What's wrong with the world, I'm agreeing with Blair AGAIN?! Whatever next?!

It is pathetic that countries such as France are still demanding subsidies, and even have projected requests for 2013: does it really take 40-50 years to modernise your agricultural industry? Instead of having a million farms with one cow and two chickens, why don't they go for modern agriculture? Last time I checked the intention of subsidies wasn't to allow heel-dragging and living in a timewarp. If they refuse to modernise, then they can either try to market their expensive produce as "organic", or they can close down.

I reckon they should set a deadline for agricultural modernisation, and the subsidies stop on that date.

Come on Tony, you're almost in my good books, finish the job!

 

[Freddie]

You have fell into the trap there Adam

 

[Damocles]

I think Blair would be rather foolish to give up the rebate until the other countries are willing to come up with an alternative which gives out money fairly. It is not a bad thing that we are subsidising the poorer EU countries because they have got richer, do contribute more into the EU and will contribute more. It is an investment and we do get something back for the money.

But cutting the British rebate to allow France to get more money is really not on.

 

[Freddie]

I think Blair would be rather foolish to give up the rebate until the other countries are willing to come up with an alternative which gives out money fairly. It is not a bad thing that we are subsidising the poorer EU countries because they have got richer, do contribute more into the EU and will contribute more. It is an investment and we do get something back for the money.

But cutting the British rebate to allow France to get more money is really not on.

So

 

[Damocles]

You mean that place the British have been trashing for centuries? Sounds ike poetic justice.

No, not really. Irealand used to be one of the poor countries but now it is not. Money has already been diverted to the countries which joined recently and this will go on. Ireland will have to expect at least to have a neutral budget with the EU.

 

[Freddie]

But they wont as they wont give up the money, but Damocles before you state a very contraversal and some find a very insulting post as you did i think you had better think about what you say next time.

 

[Damocles]

Are you suggesting that the British (more specifically mostly the English) never invaded Ireland?

I think one reason there is rather more fuss about the British budget rebate now is exactly because several countries realise they will be next having to make contributions unless they can rake up more money from somewhere.

 

[AdamW]

You have fell into the trap there Adam-----Agricultrial subsidies arent the problem, they are the easy target and the scapegoat and if the EU didnt give the subsides to farmers then your own country would have to.

Ah, but I have no problem with British taxpayers' money subsidising British agriculture (although we wouldn't need to, most likely). What I object to is our subsidising of other countries' agriculture.

When I have been abroad I see farms that belong in the 19th century. Yeh, great, this peasant is farming the same land his father, grandfather, great grandfather did, with much the same methods. That is wonderful. But why should we be the ones paying for it? He is welcome to try and sell his produce at exhorbitant prices because it is "organic, farmed by hand" and so forth. People will probably pay those prices!

Britain has actively improved and modernised it's agriculture for hundreds of years. Enclosed fields, selective breeding, machinery, co-operatives. All innovations we have been quick to adopt (we invented some if not all of them too!).

Subsidies should never have been given. If a farm is not able to support itself it should not exist. Sorry Pedro, but perhaps you and all the other dirt farmers in your area should form a co-op or even one large farm? We should not be paying for inefficiency and deficiency in private industry.

 

[AdamW]

You mean that place the British have been trashing for centuries? Sounds ike poetic justice.

Are you suggesting that the British (more specifically mostly the English) never invaded Ireland?

The history of the British Isles (of which Ireland is one) is a history of invasion and expulsion.

Why not blame the Danish? After all, the Vikings invaded Ireland and England. A large portion of our population is descended from Vikings. Or perhaps the Germans, after all where do you think the "Saxon" in Anglo-Saxon comes from? Saxony.

I did a bit of reading. Ireland was first inhabited around 8000BC. Around 700BC the first Celts started invading. The Celts of course originated in Belgium. So, to answer your question, the Belgians did it first.

I suspect you are slipping into the liberal self-blame culture here. Just because your great^10 grandfather did something that is now considered wrong, but at the time was a perfectly reasonable thing to do, does not mean that you should be held culpable. Perhaps you have unknown ancestors who were slave traders in the Roman era, possibly even trading my ancestors. I'm not going to hold a grudge! It was a long time ago, and it wasn't you doing it!

 

[Richardp]

Russian, most of us anglo saxons came out of Russia the vikings etc. mind you Russia was even bigger then than it is now, most of northern europe there was no such place as Germany or Belgium or even holland we was mostly frigging ruskies with huge eyebrows and massive women umm! nice! I think!!...rape and pillage was just an everyday ocurrance,no big deal.
The French was the last of the old flatheads neanditol man they lived in them caves down in southern france.

 

[Freddie]

Totally agree with Adam .

 

[jasy]

You mean that place the British have been trashing for centuries? Sounds ike poetic justice.

No, not really. Irealand used to be one of the poor countries but now it is not. Money has already been diverted to the countries which joined recently and this will go on. Ireland will have to expect at least to have a neutral budget with the EU.

Dont you just love this bloke

 

[Mr-Jingles]

The Eu is only right when all countries pay in equally



Freddie
regarding the Bog trotters/Iriosh who fought for King Country ,I HOPE we are excluding them thick-tarmac-laying-scum-with-incestous relations-with-daughters -spurning -out -chavs-on-once-were-wonderful-council-estates-these -******-expect -benefit-but-are-lucky-heather-bothering -horsie -bothering-molestors-burglar-hairy-cheeked-redfaced-gingers of the North who supported /funded the Nazis ,

tell me if I missed anything thats not true about them Iriosh ****** ,lol