British Gas Homecare - Free Boiler Replacement - Choices

[Mikefromlondon]

TBH, I was expecting much adverse reaction to my post than this . I have been hesitant to post it, but I really wanted to share my personal experience.

I do not advocate that you do not need power flushes, or other addatives, naturally they are designed to help protect your installation and appliance

But in my case I must have been terribly lucky! not once but twice and so if I chose to replace my 2nd boiler in 37 years time, perhaphs this time I might run a water hose through all my pipe work, remove my rads and clean any sludge and refit them, I would say it is about time now that I did that in order to make the 3rd appliance last another 20 years!


Recently bought two brand new tyres for my car for 90 quid each, price included wheel balancing and new nipples, after putting the wheels back on the front axial of the car, the fitter asked if I needed tracking done, I hesitated then asked how much would that be? he said 25 quid, we use top class laser tracking, best money can buy!

I said No Thanks, I do not have any problem with my tracking! he then said we would not then guarantee the tyres if they develop uneven wear, and I said Ok thats fine, why should my car develop an uneven wear when its tracking is perfect, i.e. it does not pull to one side or the other, the older tyres wore evenly!

I saved myself some money and avoided getting stuffed another product/service down my throat that was not going to be necessary!

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I don't deny, there are people who are quite happy to see the end of their old boiler especially when they may have suffered at the hands of a few unscrupulous engineers who ripped them off, so they tend to shy away from continuing to maintain their old boilers past say 5 years, or may be max 10 years, that is real sad, this is what drives them away towards new boilers.

They easily get convinced that older the boiler the more dangerous it becomes suddenly when it has gone past its 10th Birthday! I still have an Opel Manta GTE "D" reg, and I regularly maintain it and it passes its MOT each year and is taxed etc, that is now 25 years old !

 

[FiremanT]

i am not saying that it hasn't got any sludge, it must have some, but so far in 37 years it has not caused me any problems,

I am not saying you are wrong, but modern boilers are less tolerant to sludge than older designs (wether or not you are happy to call that "progress").

sorry but I don't easily buy into things, door to door salesmen come offering me free loft insulation......free..my foot, is there such a thing as free, I just send them packing!

You are absolutely right! The LI is NOT free - you have already paid for it via energy efficiency levies, and the companies are REQUIRED to spend it on grants for the like of insulation. I have still got boxes of "free" EE lightbulbs. I also have "free" loft insulation

 

[Gasguru]

So Mike has a wonderful system

Well when you have worked on thousands of systems you can then offer a fair judgement but to proclaim that proper cleaning and inhibitors are unecessary is just very ignorant.

Here in London the majority of systems are poorly installed with terrible quality components such as radiator valves. So they often leak allowing air ingress and corrosion.

Modern boilers are hopeless in dealing with debris in the water, install without the necessary cleaning and upgrading of the system at your peril.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

So Mike has a wonderful system

Well when you have worked on thousands of systems you can then offer a fair judgement but to proclaim that proper cleaning and inhibitors are unecessary is just very ignorant.

Here in London the majority of systems are poorly installed with terrible quality components such as radiator valves. So they often leak allowing air ingress and corrosion.

Modern boilers are hopeless in dealing with debris in the water, install without the necessary cleaning and upgrading of the system at your peril.

I said what I said based on my personal experience, not on thousands of systems that you may have worked on. You are quite right, I cannot make a judgment based on just my personal experience, or on no more than about a dozen systems that I may have dealt with, however it so happens, if a friend or someone who knows me asks for my advice regarding power flush or other additives, I would definitely not advice him Not to go for it,

So in this post I am not advising anyone not to go for a power flush, or add rust and corrosion inhibitors, In fact I would strongly reccomend them to go for, it is their money, not mine, and it is their boiler and not mine. I said personally I wouldn't take that route, but I am making a choice where if things went wrong, it will be my own liability. I will have to deal with it, but so far two boilers and 37 years old pipe work, no blockages, no major sludge, and so far so good, as I said I must be very lucky.


take this scenario:

say one of your friend installs a new system and asks you for your opinion regarding power flushes and adding inhibitors to the system, you advised him to definitely go for it, but unfortunately, the system breaks down, for whatever reason, your friend won't be accusing you for your recommendation regarding power flush and rust & corrosion inhibitors, or accuse you for the breakdown.

He would simply think the boiler packed up possibly due to a component failure, which in almost all cases usually is a component failure!

rarely it is a user abuse situation, like turning off all rads and firing up a boiler may lead to its earlier failure.

So if the appliance was under its warranty period it will get fixed by the manufacturer, one way or the other, even if the owner did not use the proper inhibitors or power flushed his system, the manufacture is obliged to fix his appliance for free under warranty, due to consumer's rights!

It won't be worthwhile for the manufacturers to argue with a customer and it could cost them their reputation if the case went to a court.

The manufacturer would not only have to incur more costs, and will be forced to carry out repairs to the appliance, so they tend not to dispute a boiler failure due to lack of inhibitors or the owner did not carry out a power flush!

The second scenario where you advised your friend not to go for these rust and corrosion inhibitors, or perform system flush, when his boiler fails for whatever reason, he would think that because of your recommendation, his system suffered an earlier failure, and he is most likely to blame you, so to avoid this situation most installers will go for the power flush and inhibitors, just to avoid being accused for the failure!

So It is quite simple, even if the actual cause of the failure was one of those unexpected premature component failure or bad workmanship, no installer or manufacturer would take this upon himself, unless the system was power flushed etc.

Yes I definitely and highly recommend a Power flushing and adding rust and corrosion inhibitors, as I personally do not want to be liable for the failure of your boiler or system!

 

[Gasguru]

Not to mention a Sine T3 and a CombiCompact...both probably the most bullet proof boilers ever made whereas the latest Vaillants (and many others) will fall over with a trace of debris in the water.

 

[gas_man_gaz]

So Mike has a wonderful system

Well when you have worked on thousands of systems you can then offer a fair judgement but to proclaim that proper cleaning and inhibitors are unecessary is just very ignorant.

Here in London the majority of systems are poorly installed with terrible quality components such as radiator valves. So they often leak allowing air ingress and corrosion.

Modern boilers are hopeless in dealing with debris in the water, install without the necessary cleaning and upgrading of the system at your peril.

I said what I said based on my personal experience, not on thousands of systems that you may have worked on. You are quite right, I cannot make a judgment based on just my personal experience, or on no more than about a dozen systems that I may have dealt with, however it so happens, if a friend or someone who knows me asks for my advice regarding power flush or other additives, I would definitely not advice him Not to go for it,

So in this post I am not advising anyone not to go for a power flush, or add rust and corrosion inhibitors, In fact I would strongly reccomend them to go for, it is their money, not mine, and it is their boiler and not mine. I said personally I wouldn't take that route, but I am making a choice where if things went wrong, it will be my own liability. I will have to deal with it, but so far two boilers and 37 years old pipe work, no blockages, no major sludge, and so far so good, as I said I must be very lucky.


take this scenario:

say one of your friend installs a new system and asks you for your opinion regarding power flushes and adding inhibitors to the system, you advised him to definitely go for it, but unfortunately, the system breaks down, for whatever reason, your friend won't be accusing you for your recommendation regarding power flush and rust & corrosion inhibitors, or accuse you for the breakdown.

He would simply think the boiler packed up possibly due to a component failure, which in almost all cases usually is a component failure!

rarely it is a user abuse situation, like turning off all rads and firing up a boiler may lead to its earlier failure.

So if the appliance was under its warranty period it will get fixed by the manufacturer, one way or the other, even if the owner did not use the proper inhibitors or power flushed his system, the manufacture is obliged to fix his appliance for free under warranty, due to consumer's rights!
It won't be worthwhile for the manufacturers to argue with a customer and it could cost them their reputation if the case went to a court.

The manufacturer would not only have to incur more costs, and will be forced to carry out repairs to the appliance, so they tend not to dispute a boiler failure due to lack of inhibitors or the owner did not carry out a power flush!

The second scenario where you advised your friend not to go for these rust and corrosion inhibitors, or perform system flush, when his boiler fails for whatever reason, he would think that because of your recommendation, his system suffered an earlier failure, and he is most likely to blame you, so to avoid this situation most installers will go for the power flush and inhibitors, just to avoid being accused for the failure!

So It is quite simple, even if the actual cause of the failure was one of those unexpected premature component failure or bad workmanship, no installer or manufacturer would take this upon himself, unless the system was power flushed etc.

Yes I definitely and highly recommend a Power flushing and adding rust and corrosion inhibitors, as I personally do not want to be liable for the failure of your boiler or system!

obviously you have never dealt with ferolli

 

[gas_man_gaz]

Untitled

• gas_man_gaz
• 28 Aug 2010
• 2

Untitled

• gas_man_gaz
• 28 Aug 2010
• 2

Untitled

• gas_man_gaz
• 17 Nov 2012
• 1

flow to ch

• gas_man_gaz
• 17 Nov 2012
• 1

here's a few jobs i've done who also didn't bother with flushing/adding chemicals

 

[mickyg]

if this is a sludge photo comp, i see your dirty DV and raise you a primary flow pipe

Untitled

• mickyg
• 27 Oct 2010
• 5

 

[Jimmy321]

Hey Mike,

Is your system free from ferrous metals? If not do you fancy picking my lottery numbers?

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I invite you to come and have a look, bring your camera along, I will put the turkey and roast on, enjoy your Christmas in full warmth!

and remember for 37 years now, with no blockages! no deposits! original primary HX, (the main one on top) the bottom one was changed because its thin copper side wall had burnt through, but not the pipe work that goes around it, I still have that as a souvenir!


Before coming chaps, bring a bottle of bubbly will you please!


Apparently, as you all find it hard to believe, I therefore went to my boiler and placed a clear glass jar under the PRV, and discharged some water pressure, Good lord! It is so clear as spring water! pure and clear simply, even i couldn't believe it, I was expecting that it would be some what rusty coloured!

I just hope that my PRV won't drip!

Ok and no lies, I have a powerful neodymium magnet, so placed that around the jar, just a few whiskers attracted to it, nothing in my view that could harm or cause a serious malfunction! So this answers Jimmy's question.

Since I have never added anything other than plain water, I even tasted a spoon full, tastes just like plain water with just neutral taste!

Oh just one more fact i got wrong, it was installed in April 1994! as opposed to I thought 1991, I have now corrected this on my other post.
Just seen the date the installer signed on its front panel!

 

[CBF]

Mike when i read one of your quotes i did think about trigger & his broom.

well done for keeping your old boiler going, but as others have said modern boilers won't cope with debris at all & if your system is dirty & it gets into the boiler i wouldn't give it 5 yrs let alone the 30 yrs you have had yours

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Mike when i read one of your quotes i did think about trigger & his broom.

well done for keeping your old boiler going, but as others have said modern boilers won't cope with debris at all & if your system is dirty & it gets into the boiler i wouldn't give it 5 yrs let alone the 30 yrs you have had yours

(never mind fools & horses! lol but I wouldn't want to just say things for the sake of winding people up! it is only when I read lots of posts on here that how some people appear to replace their boilers in 5, 6 or 10 years time, I couldn't understand why?)

The thing is as I said earlier, if I became an installer, I would certainly not rule out the additives and power flush, as I wouldn't want any one blaming for the premature failure of their system on my failing to undertake these things which are now recommended by all boiler manufacturers. Having said this if I ever became an installer or took up this trade, I am altogether different trade.

I might have to do something about the ferrous whiskers and place a trap somewhere, if and when I get some time, but there is nothing major in there.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

here's a few jobs i've done who also didn't bother with flushing/adding chemicals

Yes I see your point, this must be exceptionally unusual! I have never seen anything like it! seems like the whole pipework must be blocked up!

I am not sure if this may have anything to do with running the CH heating flow to a very high temp, around 80 to 90 degrees! I have never run my CH more than 60deg or 70 deg at the most when my mother was around! but these days or for the past 5 years I run mine at no more than about 35deg, like for example now it is running at 35deg and the room temp is about 20deg!

but I tend to run mine constantly, 24/7 instead of just by turning it up and relying on a timer or a room state, for which you would need a higher flow temp. This steady low flow temp just maintains a steady background heat of around 18 to 20 deg, the internal temp depending on the weather outside of course, hence when outside temp drops to around 4 deg, the internal temp correspondingly goes low, perhaphs as low as 16 deg! so to maintained the inside temp to around the usual 18 degrees i have to turn the flow temp higher to about 50deg.

Only on very cold days that do I have to turn it up to about 50 deg flow to maintain room temp of just over 18 deg. More so when it is minus a few degrees outside! that is very rare in london!

Secondly, if I am in my living room and feel colder, even at 18deg you would often feel uncomfortable, so I don't turn my CH up, I just run a fan heater 2Kw for topping up the room temp to about 21 or 22 deg. This doesn't need to run for more than 15 to 20 minutes, and I may have to run this for about 4 to 5 times per day on very cold days, this helps not to keep adjusting the boiler, I spend most of my time in just one room.

 

[gas_man_gaz]

Tbh all I seem to be doing at the min is unblocking pipework