Budget

[Ivor Windybottom]

There undoubtedly IS a peak somewhere, and it looks like our crazy government are playing the very dangerous game of trying to find it.

The really nasty reality of the Laffer curve is that if you go beyond the peak then you may get an increase in tax revenue that year, potentially fooling a call-centre worker who's pretending to be an economist into thinking she'd got away with it.

The damage is long-term. It takes time for businesses to move, stop expanding or close down. They'll carry on trading for a while, making a loss while paying massive taxes. But they're the living dead at this point, they're going to die soon.

Once the seeds of this damage have been sown it's too late to change course. Those businesses that have an overdraft this year are going to close next year or after. It takes a lot longer for businesses to form than it does for them to get destroyed by an anti-economy government.

 

[JohnD]

There undoubtedly IS a peak somewhere,

But you don't know where it is.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

But you don't know where it is.

Correct. And it's best for us all if nobody tries to prove where it is. As once you have the economy's dead, for decades.

It's possible we're already beyond it, but the figures don't yet show it.

 

[motorbiking]

It’s seems to be a spurious (dodgy at best) justification for lowering taxes

If you work on the basis that all tax payers are equal and there are a finite number of tax payers in the country then it's hard to argue. But if you can adjust your tax regime to attract high tax payers from other jurisdictions both business and individuals, then you can have more taxes receipts with lower taxes. Right now we have the reverse, the so called doom loop, where taxes go up, receipts go down, so taxes go up again.

The new "mansion tax" will also have people buying overseas places rather than UK. But I suspect we will increasingly see people separating larger properties to avoid it.

 

[JohnD]

It's possible we're already beyond it, but the figures don't yet show it.

It's also possible that we're a long way short of it.

Have you ever known a Laffer campaigner who didn't try to use the notional curve in an unsubstantiated claim that taxes should be reduced?

Do you usually find unsubstantiated claims convincing?

Or only when they say what you want to hear?

 

[JohnD]

The new "mansion tax" will also have people buying overseas places rather than UK.

If you honestly think the oligarchs buying multiple five million pound homes give a stuff about a £7500 annual bill, you're more stupid than you pretend.

 

[motorbiking]

I think second place Sunak actually forecast something right for a change

 

[motorbiking]

If you honestly think the oligarchs buying multiple five million pound homes give a stuff about a £7500 annual bill, you're more stupid than you pretend.

Oligarchs..

you have funny ideas about the kind of people who own £2M homes.

 

[JohnD]

If you honestly think the oligarchs buying multiple five million pound homes give a stuff about a £7500 annual bill, you're more stupid than you pretend.

 

[motorbiking]

If you honestly think the oligarchs buying multiple five million pound homes give a stuff about a £7500 annual bill, you're more stupid than you pretend.

feel free to keep saying something that only you have said.

There are 2M homes in scope for the tax and many larger properties can easily separate part of the property for "business".

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Basically, we agree regarding PIP, but the idea that millionaire business owners are scroungers is for the birds. Many years ago, Colman's Mustard built homes and schools for their employees and their families.

Rather than paying living wages, again the same issues

Essentially, this is still happening, but it's through taxation.

Yes, taxpayers subsidising business to keep wages down

 

[motorbiking]

Yes, taxpayers subsidising business to keep wages down

better than have the job move to another country or have the person unemployed.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

better than have the job move to another country or have the person unemployed.

No.

Much better for the economy if people can live on a wage, and spend that money

 

[blup]

If you work on the basis that all tax payers are equal and there are a finite number of tax payers in the country then it's hard to argue. But if you can adjust your tax regime to attract high tax payers from other jurisdictions both business and individuals, then you can have more taxes receipts with lower taxes. Right now we have the reverse, the so called doom loop, where taxes go up, receipts go down, so taxes go up again.

The new "mansion tax" will also have people buying overseas places rather than UK. But I suspect we will increasingly see people separating larger properties to avoid it.

That was the other theme on Jezza’s show, the number of young people moving abroad: turns out the great majority are east Europeans leaving post brexhit. But no complaints from the right wing algorithm about that. But there is a simple answer, do what the US does and tax worldwide income.

 

[motorbiking]

That was the other theme on Jezza’s show, the number of young people moving abroad: turns out the great majority are east Europeans leaving post brexhit. But no complaints from the right wing algorithm about that. But there is a simple answer, do what the US does and tax worldwide income.

I'd be happy with the US system.

No CGT on assets held more than a year.