I live en France and have a Lamborghini/Calor oil boiler, this has a Danfoss BFP11R3 pump and a Landis & Gyr Siemens LOA24171B27 control box together with a Landis & Gyr photocell. Boiler is about 8 years old. Had a bit of an issue earlier in the year as temprature fell to minus 25 and the fuel supplied here gelled, had to resort to using 20 litre cans with the hoses put in and the suction of the pump to run the boiler, all worked fine as it was only in use as a back up for the wood boiler. Couple of weeks ago the wood boiler developed a fault and the oil boiler was switched on, now reconnected to the main tank, had been run after this reconnection without problems; boiler fired and after half a minute or so went off, waited the prescribed preset time and fired up again, half a minute and off again; tried this a fem more times and decided to pop the spare burner in and it fired up and runs fine. Now have the rogue burner on the bench and have tried to isolate the problem, have checked the solenoid with an external power supply and it magnetises and holds, have checked the photocell and all seems ok and inded have tried a new unit, have tried the control box from the working burner. What I now have is thus, with the benefit of the external power to the solenoid the burner will ignite immediately this power is switched on, runs for half a minute or so and then the flame dies, I imagine the spark stops sparking as there is still evidence of oil. Wait for the unit to reset, press the button and off we go again to the same scenario. Incidentally I have a different make unit with an almost identical problem, only difference is that this unit will continue to run with the benefit of the externally energised solenoid; both units developped the fault at around the same time! Any thoughts?
Burner problems
- Thread starter eliphanta
- Start date
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Hi,
I had a similar problem at Xmas. I was very low on oil so this compounded things as I thought I was out. Engineer came and changed the nozzle but it only ran for an hour or so before locking out again.
I found my solution on this forum. It was the solenoid.
I have a range cooker/boiler with 2 burners so swapped the solenoids over. Problem sorted.
I put the suspect solenoid on my bench and wired a mains 15w (or so) lamp in series with it and powered up. The light lit but after about 5 minutes it went out, then came on again, then went out etc etc.
Purchased new solenoid from eBay and fitted it. Hasn't blinked since.
andytw
I had a similar problem at Xmas. I was very low on oil so this compounded things as I thought I was out. Engineer came and changed the nozzle but it only ran for an hour or so before locking out again.
I found my solution on this forum. It was the solenoid.
I have a range cooker/boiler with 2 burners so swapped the solenoids over. Problem sorted.
I put the suspect solenoid on my bench and wired a mains 15w (or so) lamp in series with it and powered up. The light lit but after about 5 minutes it went out, then came on again, then went out etc etc.
Purchased new solenoid from eBay and fitted it. Hasn't blinked since.
andytw
Check the resistance of the solenoid coil when it is cold, and then measure again immediately when it locks out.
These things are very heat sensitive when they are failing.
John
These things are very heat sensitive when they are failing.
John
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Ok, so you are using a brand new solenoid coil, and the burner locks out after 30 sec or so.
If you are running the burner on the bench, presumably you are keeping the photocell dark until the burner starts, and then letting it see light? This should keep the thing running.
Whats the flame like - is it darting about a bit, is there any smoke, and can you test the pump pressure?
John
If you are running the burner on the bench, presumably you are keeping the photocell dark until the burner starts, and then letting it see light? This should keep the thing running.
Whats the flame like - is it darting about a bit, is there any smoke, and can you test the pump pressure?
John
Hello John, thank you for your continued support, I have kept the photocell in the dark although I have questioned the need for this as I imagine I have bypassed this by having an external power source. I have not tested pump pressure as I don't know how to, have to say that it had previously been functioning ok; flame is constant and of good colour whilst running, on lockout as the flame is extinguishing bit of smoke! Have to wonder if it it could be an interuption to the motor and pump power but again would this point to the control box which is proven ok.
Back to you
Back to you
I think I would be inclined to reconnect the control box as per the usual installation - after all, you say that it works perfectly well on the replacement burner.
Just a couple of things about the pump - the pressure is set by screwing a pressure gauge into the port marked 'P' and the pressure should be in the region of between 110 and 140 psi usually.
There is an internal filter within the pump, under the end cover which is held by 4 allen screws - it can't do any harm to check this.
So - the burner flame is extinguishing because either the oil supply is shutting off (solenoid failure - either the coil or the internal valve itself) or the motor power supply is being shut off.
If the solenoid fails, the flame should immediately cut off (we use a magnetic stick that tells us if the magnetic field within the coil collapses) but if the motor power fails then the flame will run down slower.
Have you tried a new photocell, and made sure the electrical connections inside the control box are tight?
John
Just a couple of things about the pump - the pressure is set by screwing a pressure gauge into the port marked 'P' and the pressure should be in the region of between 110 and 140 psi usually.
There is an internal filter within the pump, under the end cover which is held by 4 allen screws - it can't do any harm to check this.
So - the burner flame is extinguishing because either the oil supply is shutting off (solenoid failure - either the coil or the internal valve itself) or the motor power supply is being shut off.
If the solenoid fails, the flame should immediately cut off (we use a magnetic stick that tells us if the magnetic field within the coil collapses) but if the motor power fails then the flame will run down slower.
Have you tried a new photocell, and made sure the electrical connections inside the control box are tight?
John
Thanks again, have tried a new photocell, the valve on the pump is ok, when the unit goes out and I then switch off the external power to the solenoid I hear and can feel it release, The connections within the control box are tight and clean. Will go and play further today, have a 60cm length of 40mm gas barrel and if all else fails will address the unit with this; it will releave my frustration and resolve the problem! Evidence continues to point to the motor, any experience on capacitors?
Its certainly worth investigating the motor! They usually spin close to 3000 rpm. With an R3 pump, looking at the pump shaft, it spins to the right.
The problems I have come across have been:
Duff capacitors (usually around 4uf, these 'instruct' the motor to turn in the correct direction on start up.....if they are dud, the motor shaft will often shake in time with the 50hz mains frequency that we have here) or not start at all.
Even if the cap is good, sometimes the motor has very little starting torque, and I hold the motor in a vice, then switch it on when holding the shaft to see if it spins.
Even when spinning the motor can have little or no torque, and is easy to stop with the fingers.
I personally have never come across a seized motor, but have replaced many bearings due to noise. The motor shaft should spin easily by hand.
At the same time, check the drive coupling between the motor and fan / pump....I've replaced loads of these but failure is either usually total (the motor spins but nothing else) or they are noisy.
John
PS Its that sort of time I'd wish someone else would contribute Maybe they have to work for a living
The problems I have come across have been:
Duff capacitors (usually around 4uf, these 'instruct' the motor to turn in the correct direction on start up.....if they are dud, the motor shaft will often shake in time with the 50hz mains frequency that we have here) or not start at all.
Even if the cap is good, sometimes the motor has very little starting torque, and I hold the motor in a vice, then switch it on when holding the shaft to see if it spins.
Even when spinning the motor can have little or no torque, and is easy to stop with the fingers.
I personally have never come across a seized motor, but have replaced many bearings due to noise. The motor shaft should spin easily by hand.
At the same time, check the drive coupling between the motor and fan / pump....I've replaced loads of these but failure is either usually total (the motor spins but nothing else) or they are noisy.
John
PS Its that sort of time I'd wish someone else would contribute
Maybe they have to work for a living Yet further time spent sitting in the sun with flames shooting out of the burner; imagine the problem solved after I had stopped and started the burner without allowing it to lock out. Got a continuous flame and power coming down the solenoid lead, in fact managed to light a lamp and keep it going, great I thought I will now reconnect it as it should be, introduced power and..............just as before, nothing happening with the solenoid. Reintroduced external power and off it jolly well went, for half a minute and lock out, tried my previous sequence of on and off, all to no avail, the unit remains confused, as am I. Imagine it can only be electrical but what bit is a mystery!
I haven't really got much more to add here, as you've done much more than the obvious....!
Have you looked at the sintered filter behind the nozzle? Nozzles shouldn't be dismantled (but I occasionally do so).
Does the motor run for ever more on the bench?
I don't know the burner, but are there any manual thermostat resets, i.e fire valves in the fuel line? (Long shot here)!
All I can say is that some photocells can only be used with the appropriate control box (although I don't know why particularly); the pump seems to be the only item that you haven't substituted but the solenoid coil and the brass solenoid itself have been checked. So long as the filter is clean and the pump can reach its designated working pressure thats about it.
Is your temporary fuel supply good, and is your pump set for a two pipe system - i.e the blanking screw in place, where its left out for a single pipe system?
John
Have you looked at the sintered filter behind the nozzle? Nozzles shouldn't be dismantled (but I occasionally do so).
Does the motor run for ever more on the bench?
I don't know the burner, but are there any manual thermostat resets, i.e fire valves in the fuel line? (Long shot here)!
All I can say is that some photocells can only be used with the appropriate control box (although I don't know why particularly); the pump seems to be the only item that you haven't substituted but the solenoid coil and the brass solenoid itself have been checked. So long as the filter is clean and the pump can reach its designated working pressure thats about it.
Is your temporary fuel supply good, and is your pump set for a two pipe system - i.e the blanking screw in place, where its left out for a single pipe system?
John
Bonjour
Had the nozzle out early on and changed for a replacement, the unit runs for about the same amount of time whether or not it is running with a flame (external power to the coil) or running with no flame, (connected to internal power source). Ample fuel to the pump and to the nozzle when external power is connected! I am wondering if there is a relay somewhere within, perhaps I need to break it down into even smaller components prior to setting about it with the gas barrel!
Had the nozzle out early on and changed for a replacement, the unit runs for about the same amount of time whether or not it is running with a flame (external power to the coil) or running with no flame, (connected to internal power source). Ample fuel to the pump and to the nozzle when external power is connected! I am wondering if there is a relay somewhere within, perhaps I need to break it down into even smaller components prior to setting about it with the gas barrel!
Eh bien
Wish I knew something about the Lamborghini burners!
The LOA 24 is a common enough control box, and requires the L + S photocell QRB1-150-7 to keep it happy.
There is a relay behind the plastic housing that the control box plugs into.
Its a Shrack RT 314730, and available from RS Components. I've replaced one before (it made no difference ) and this was on a two stage burner - i.e the thing started up at low pressure (100 psi) then switched to high pressure (145 psi) after 35 sec.
I don't know if yours is similar, and I could be sending you on a wild goose (oie) chase
Bon chance
John
P.S No reference to this issue but J'adore la france!
Wish I knew something about the Lamborghini burners!
The LOA 24 is a common enough control box, and requires the L + S photocell QRB1-150-7 to keep it happy.
There is a relay behind the plastic housing that the control box plugs into.
Its a Shrack RT 314730, and available from RS Components. I've replaced one before (it made no difference
) and this was on a two stage burner - i.e the thing started up at low pressure (100 psi) then switched to high pressure (145 psi) after 35 sec.I don't know if yours is similar, and I could be sending you on a wild goose (oie) chase
Bon chance
John
P.S No reference to this issue but J'adore la france!
Thank you for your continued thoughts; I have to imagine that in the fulness of time I will resolve the issue, the fitted spare is working efficiently, spring is here, today anyway, 20 degrees and blazing sunshine. I have all summer to play with it and luck and a following wind should see all of the wood burner problems resolved, only continuing issue as I see is convincing my wife to load it up! Will keep you advised!.
If you are ever en France with a bag of tools would be very happy to see you!
If you are ever en France with a bag of tools would be very happy to see you!
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