Button to remove supply for approx 1 minute.

[ericmark]

We have some alarms owned by social services so can't modify them. But they can be reset by removing supply. Idea is to alert us upstairs when mother needs us down stairs. But every so often she triggers them when we are down stairs, or we want to leave house without triggering the alarm.

I tried a remote controlled switch, it did work to an extent, but too easy not to switch back on again, and it means to leave we have to take the remote with us, so can't be used by people remaining in the house.

Our temporary answer is a simple timer so alarms are switched off in the day, and are only used in the evening and over night.

The Elkey Columbus Pneumatic time delay switch would do the job, however that needs hard wiring, so before I go to the lengths of hard wiring is there some simple maybe even plug in device which would do the job with a RF link.

We have something like this, but found that some times it was not switched back on again.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

sorry see below post.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-6CH-R...156396?hash=item210be0182c:g:K6UAAOSwa39UvnA6

This one has volt free C/O contacts so you may be able to wire a 3 pin short lead extension socket to this remote device at its user terminals (volt free) and use momentary button to switch off the power through N/C contacts to your alert system plugged plugged into this extension socket, so when you press remote button it effectively switches power off for a time period the button is pressed.

Does this mean that when you are there, your mother can summon your help and when you go to work etc, her call can be answered by Social Services?

 

[ericmark]

The link does have advantage that it can be set so alarm only off when button pressed, but there is no time delay, so can't push then sort problem, it needs problem solving then button pressed, this is a major problem. Last thing one wants if you do have to do something to help mother is a disembodied voice saying "Intruder alarm flat zero" so want to cancel first then sort out what ever is wrong.

Originally it had a bed sensor and a one hour delay, if mother did not return to bed in one hour the call centre would alert us, when we went to live with mother it was changed, they had the sensor working direct to alarm, we thought still with hour delay, but it seems the delay was removed, reason that alarm did not go off straight away was it was faulty, so it was swapped for a PIR at floor level, but again no delay, and again it did not work, so then mounted on a draw front, well it worked, but again no delay, well mother had improved so in the main not required, so we put a flap over the PIR which on nights when it was required we could move to one side. We can't turn off whole alarm as that also switches off the pendent alarm. Well we are now having the alarm going off at all times of day and night as mother opens draws, it wakes us both as from down stairs we can't cancel the alarm. So one of use goes down stairs to find out what is wrong, then alarm goes off again waking up the second person as well before we can cancel it.

The whole system is rubbish, we were talking last night, and it would seem best if directed through call centre again, we are still paying for call centre, so it may as well return to that system. However looking for other methods at the same time. Call centres are slow, from pushing button to getting phone call is around 10 minutes which is rather slow.

We have a second alarm which works on the doors, plus second pendent alarm, that one we use a simple timer with, so only active at night.

 

[securespark]

Is this a hard-wired system?

 

[ericmark]

No the two alarm units are simply plugged in, it seems the council women who recommend the systems and fit the systems have very little knowledge. They could not get a unit which would work with door reed switches and a PIR so installed three independent systems.
1) Is connected to phone line, has two smoke alarms, and a pendent alarm, all RF linked, the call centre first tries to talk using the wall mounted unit, should they fail to get answer they then try to phone, should that fail they contact emergency services.
2) Has two door reed switches RF linked, plus another pendent alarm, we power this unit through a timer so only active at night, or when the override has been activated. I would be an advantage if we could re-set the alarm when outside, so one of us could leave the house without it being triggered, but once out it would become active again. So if mother then tries to leave the alarm would alert the other carer.
3) Has a pendent and PIR RF linked, is active at all times, the PIR is covered with a bit of card to stop it activating, and the pendent on this one is the one worn by mother.

What would cure the problem is if either the door contacts could be moved to 3) or the PIR moved to 2) so one alarm only worked with pendent, the door contacts and PIR are only needed when my mother has a cold or other illness which makes the alzheimer's kick in, most of the time they are not required. And very rare they are required in the day.

I have considered many options, the main one was an alarm system with zones, if I could turn off the PIR then all would be fine. The PIR is now a waste of time, my mother has got her strength back and can get up at night without our assistance all we are worried about is if she should fall while getting in or out of the wheel chair. The original 1 hour out of bed was fine, the chances of her falling are slim, but just in case she can't reach one of the pendants, notifying us she is out of bed is a good safety feature.
However I changed the mattress on the bad two years ago, it seems it's a little firmer than original, that was why I changed it, and from that point the bed sensor stopped working, however we were unaware of this, so this was found out about three months ago, and the PIR was used instead, at that point my mother had only just returned home, and the hospital and care home had stopped my mother transferring on her own, so she had lost strength, as a result all transfers used a lift, now however she is transferring herself again, so the PIR is no longer any good. But getting the social services to return to using a bed sensor seems to be a problem.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Not an easy situation to grasp, I will have to read a few more times to get a whole picture in my head, and suggest a solution, that can be made to a degree more acceptable, but ultimately one cannot cover everything, unless it was based on a camera based intelligent software that was capable of weighing a given situation
that would remove the need for lots of other sensors. As they say necessity is the mother of all inventions.

So if I were to grab around a dozen top software engineers from around the world, and hold them hostage with a sharp banana, and a spiky cactus, and ask them to develop a powerful software or they will face the wrath of that spiky cactus, I am sure they would be able to develop a powerful tool (software) where we teach it to recoganise a person who needs to be monitored, and faces of all others who may come to assist her, so face recognition and then moment recognition,
sending alert signals via wifi and or text messages, with ability to talk and ask, that would make wearing pendulum based emergency switch a thing of the past, and the software could even acknowledge if anyone else was presence in the house who should not be there, and such that if a person was not well enough or takes a fall or is trying to do something out of the extraordinary and the software can distinguish all activities and analyse things and alerts or calls an emergency number for help, as well as keeping next of kin alert and by sending real time images or video of a person in distress, plus your own ability to check whenever you want to using the smart phone. half of it is already here and it is just a matter of putting the pieces together. Technology can be useful.

Any ways i am sure you would be able to sort something out for your mother, I will try to work on something that may help for now whilst the new technology is probably just around the corner. I am sure someone has already made a baby monitor app that could be used here.

 

[ericmark]

Well phone call today, they are coming to modify the set-up. Personally I can't see any reasonable way around the bed sensor and timer. The PIR is useless, after being up most of last night, when mother kept setting it off, I have removed the batteries in the PIR.

I did look at the two PLC's I have and did consider writing software, however what it needs is a zoned panel where some zones can have a delay, and a remote cancel button, not really rocket science. It would seem the problem is they are in essence trying to use an intruder alarm to monitor old people.

As to baby alarm, well not as daft as it seems, voice activation is likely the best option, and it seems you can get voice activated baby alarms. My mother never takes off her voice and loses it, so a device which will switch on once the noise reaches shout for help point and then relays that shout to where we can hear it, is likely the best option. So simple, kick myself for not thinking about that option.

So thank you, all I need to do is buy a voice operated baby alarm.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I feel for you mate, I know it is not a nice situation to be in when parents are in this sort of situation, yes I I commend you for trying your best to look after her and her needs, and undoubtedly your own home is a best place for your elderly parents, no abuse by so called care homes, and abuse by others, so keep at it and she deserves some dignity, no matter what she is suffering from, at times it gives you restless nights, same thing happened with my mother and when I woke up during the night, her snoring was a rest assuring sign that she was still well and sleeping well, when I didn't hear her cough or snore, I used to start panicking like if she is still breathing etc.

So I am sorry this is being discussed on public forums, if you wish to discuss in private by all means give me a pm, we can discuss further there, I would like to know exactly what her issues are and what she needs or requires and what kind of attention like does she need assistance getting off the bed to go to loo, does she need middle of the night medication, meals, water, can she help herself and to what extent, the list is endless, and if you wish to discuss in total confidence and private then PM is best,

From your above post sounds like you can write software and make little gadgets using microprocessors etc, things like pic controllers. a very useful skill, and future of all things.
But I found simpler devices even one like just a brass bell can be a useful gadget for the elderly when they need attention, and Alzheimer sufferers it is twice as challenging, because they are confused and don't know what to do, where they are and even forget faces of their own children, I always believed looking after your parents is a number one priority well above your own.

So until i know her exact needs and what she does and what she should not do, like sleep walking, or just wondering, opening front door and going out late at night nowhere, can be a dilemma for you and your misses, alarm mats can be wired up under the carpets to track her movements if PIR trips every time she moves even in her bed, door contacts etc can all help device a tailored system.
Or you could even have sensors (PIR) in other areas where she should not be going, which can alert just you and not the social but able to link on demand with the social services equipment if necessary .camera monitoring using wifi and alerts on your smart phone, I had a sim based alarm system for my rented house in between when it is undergoing renovation and is long term empty, I place this alarm plugged in mains and battery backed, with pir and door switch contacts all wireless, would enable me to hear any voices if someone broke in and I could also pretend to speak to any intruder as if I am a security center and I would speak like "Roger! yes the Police is on their way roger " yes xyz street number 55 roger" Premises broken into, intruder is still on the premises roger"
I did this whenever I had a false alarm possibly due to spiders or insects tripping PIRs.

 

[ericmark]

My mother is an amputee, and when she went to hospital they would not allow her to transfer from wheel chair to other chair or bed. This resulted in two things, one she was rather upset, and two she lost strength. On eventually returning home, she has improved, 95% of the time she self transfers again now. However the alarms were fitted when she first came home, so now are unsuitable. It has taken a long time for her to recover from her hospital stay, I can't criticise enough the treatment she got in hospital. We had to threaten court action to get her wheel chair returned to her. On the other hand I can't give enough praise for the county council social services, and also the care home who helped prove my mother could cope at home.

However I still have two departments who are not helping. The artificial limb centre has now admitted they never gave my mother a chance to walk after her leg was amputated, as the limb they gave her was only suitable to stand on, it was not suitable to walk on, some 10 years on it is unlikely even if we did get a better leg that with alzheimer's she will ever learn to walk now, and when I try to get any improvements I am threatened that they may consider the health and safety aspect means she is no longer suitable to have an artificial limb. They seem only interested in military amputees, they get best of everything.

And the second it the two ladies who fit the alarms, however it's not really their fault, clearly they have not been trained, and are trying to pick things up as they go along. When they first fitted the PIR I pointed out what the P stands for, and that artificial limbs do not radiate IR so would not be seen by the sensor, also her other leg has poor circulation so even that leg may not be seen. The idea was only to put the PIR in position when my mother was bad, but because it could not detect the leg, it was mounted higher on a draw front. However this resulted in not being able to move it. Also every time mother goes into the draw it goes off. I put a long handle above the PIR with a card which could be slid over the PIR. This helps, but we still get it going off when not required.

If it were a simple case of pressing the cancel button it would not be so bad, but the cancel button is upstairs with the alarm panel to wake us up. And the PIR is down stairs in my mothers bedroom. So it means running upstairs and back to press the cancel button. I am 65 and wife 62 so we are not now the fittest of people to be running up and down stairs. Yes we have a stair lift, but to bring it down stairs, go up and down on it, then return it to upstairs charge point takes nearly 10 minutes. Clearly not an option when we also have some event to correct which caused the alarm to go off in the first place.

So I am crossing my fingers and hope they can improve what we have. I did consider keeping this private, but I feel others may be in the same situation, and they may not be electrical engineers and be less able to modify and cure the problem them selves. I will admit I was not very good writing PIC programs, PLC yes wrote quite complex ones, but not with PIC's. And all my books and tools are either at my home or sons home, not my mothers home where I live now.

 

[cjard]

I was going to suggest a baby monitor.. The one we have is an angelcare ac401 and it has a movement sensor for monitoring baby breathing. The nursery unit is battery or ac powered and the microphone sensitivity can be set so that quiet noises don't alert the parent remote but loud ones do. The sensor is piezo based and detects the bed occipant breAthing and moving. After 30 seconds of no movement it beeps once at the nursery end to see if it can spark a movement and after about 10 seconds the alarm goes off. It can be quickly silenced from the parent unit. I don't know if you could use your electronics knowledge to extend the timer to an hour. A person (mum) in the nursery can control things simply by switching off the nursery unit which will prevent the movement alarm sounding but then she would need to unplug the sensor wires and take it with her and switch it on if she wanted to call for help. Not ideal for Alzheimer's sufferers

Perhaps an alternative is to build a device that mimics the movement sensor for some time when it is powered, associate it with the light she has to turn on to see her way to the bathroom. I used to live in a flat where the hall lights were on a push button that was on when in but slowly slides back out via some oil damper and Spring setup and turns off. Damping was adjustable. Electronic equivalents may exist and be better for turning light off earlier than timer expiry when bathroom break us over

I'm thinking when lights off and in bed, real movement sensor is working. Mum Wakes, turns on timed light, fake movement sensor takes over sending pulses to the monitor. Returns to bed, light off, real movement sensor is active again. If not returns to bed, timer expires, light off, real sensor takes over, no movement, alarm.
Or can just forget the movement idea and use her voice, put a whistle in each room etc. Maybe sew the whistle onto her nightie

Also I picked up a night vision IP camera in eBay for 20 quid once to monitor a bird nest that was in the way in my building site to make sure works elsewhere weren't disturbing them. Easy to setup, even has 2 way audio, remote pan and tilt to look around, iPad app etc, can monitor her from any where. Was gonna use it for baby but never got around to it.
It has movement alerts and other stuff you might be able to work up into a solution, maybe get a few of them and if the ultimate movement detected was not in bedroom in any 30 minute interval, ring a phone (Skype has a simple api for this, for example - when Skype is running it hosts a website. Opening a web browser to e.g. Http://localhost:1234/dial/01234567890 causes Skype to dial the number). Any of the foscam clones on eBay will likely be suitable to experiment on, you can even borrow mine and have a play with it. I'm Not using it at the moment

Another good free app that uses cheap webcams for motion detection is called vitaminD.. Maybe has an api too so it could be integrated with some scripts that send alerts etc. One of many, to be certain

Oh and the angel care baby monitor unit has an Led light and a button intended for helping find a lost parent remote but it could equally work like a help button This nursery unit can be carried around when running on batteries and the audio part always works, but the sensor mat is a wired type thing so think carefully on whether you want to use it. The mode (movement sensing+audio vs audio only) can only be changed from the parent remote so if you want mum to carry the nursery unit you forego the movement: if it is in movement mode and the mat wire is unplugged the alarm sounds

 

[ericmark]

I am going to wait now until social services have been. I have camera but not appropriate for use in a bedroom. I think the baby alarm will work well. But will wait and see what they do first.

 

[Aquaheat]

@ericmark have read the posts a few times and still confused with the whole scope of things that you need to modify the system to meet your mothers needs. Hopefully that will be sorted following the visit.

In the mean time going back to your OP would it not be possible to rig up a timer relay of sorts to the power supply so that once power is killed it will return the supply after your set time?

Just a thought and maybe a non starter but I would think that something could be made up to fit in line with the power supply to do this and shouldn't cost a massive amount to do either.

Jon

 

[Mikefromlondon]

ericmark, is your mother not able to press a sort of bell button for help, a button that you can mount in several different locations including in bathroom, etc, and close to her bed within easy reach, fixed in position so she can't drop it off the side board, this is when she really needs your help, she presses on this button, is not your idea to stop alerting Social Services Monitoring base as the call may not be Emergency, but accidental? so do you want a system that switches over to Social Services Monitoring during the day time when you at work and at night it links to your room panel. also you may be able to hook up something to her table lamp or room light if she switches on the lights for any reason, like to go to a toilet etc, then this option could also alert you instead of a PIR sensor, sure in the dark she won't be able to get up and attempt going all by herself in the dark, or is there a dim light lit during night time.

 

[ericmark]

We have three buttons, however 5 minutes ago she what tying to get my attention by hitting the TV remote on the chest of draws, she reached over two buttons to reach chest of draws.

We have a reasonable idea when she goes to bed if it's going to be a good or bad night, being able to select which sensors are active is important.