Buying a 2nd hand car instead of an EV

[Harry Bloomfield]

ok, I'll stop doing 20,000 miles a year in my EV now I know that...

If an EV fits, with the way you use a car, then that's fine for you. Don't assume everyone can effectively limit their range, or have access to a home charge point, or even any charge point when they might desperately need one, or can even plan their journeys ahead of time, so they can ensure they have an adequate charge.

My grandson, drives a company VW van, loaded to the limit, with tools and the parts he needs to do his job. His job takes him all over the country, at the drop of hat - like you, he clocks up around 20,000 miles per year. How could he even operate at all with an EV?

 

[JohnD]

I like the 'zero tail pipe emissions' bit, makes EV's sound totally green .. until someone asks the question 'where does the electricity to charge them come from?'

I can help you with that question

Plus solar, which on this winter morning is currently 5%.

Biomass is about 8%

The rest is mostly hydro from UK and I think Norway, and spare Nuke power from France.

In sunnier parts, Solar is much bigger.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Biomass is about 8%

Which involves Canadian trees to be cut down, shredded, transported across Canada, across the North Atlantic, across the north of the UK, to be burned at Drax. How very green.

 

[martygturner]

Why involves Canadian tree to be cut down, shredded, transported across Canada, across the North Atlantic, across the north of the UK, to be burned at Drax. How very green.

I would be a bit careful with that argument... in danger of making yourself look silly... we import gas from the US, Qatar and Norway, and they are climbing.... Wood chips from abroad are now declining at 5% per year as we switch from bio diesel to biomass... Like coal we should thankfully for what it gave us but bright enough to see what its taken away.

 

[Avocet]

Two reasons for that - EV's were heavily subsidised, to encourage people to buy them, then to get range, they are much heavier/do more damage to the road surface. Now you pay, more in line with ICE.

Just like diesels were subsidised by the very VED tax rates we're talking about! I wouldn't mind, if the taxation system was based on weight - but it isn't. It's based on CO2 emissions. Nor has that revenue been ringfenced for road maintenance and building since the 1930s!

No, of course not, but I can nip to a garage, and fill up in five minutes, no waiting. Even if an EV had the range towing it's own weight, I would then have to take it from the field, to a charger, and sit there for hours whilst it recharged, versus the no waiting five minutes.

"hours", you say...? More like 20 minutes to half an hour. Just enough time to grab some shopping. And of course, depending on how generous your campsite provider is with his hookup points, you can even trickle a bit more in during your stay - something you wouldn't have been able to do with a diesel...

 

[Avocet]

I like the 'zero tail pipe emissions' bit, makes EV's sound totally green .. until someone asks the question 'where does the electricity to charge them come from?'

nb. the only 'filthiest' 2001-2017 cars that paid up to £35 (the next band was £165) were those emitting no more than 120 gms.

And that's an easy one to answer. The electricity comes from the National Grid (which is currently supplying it at 104 grammes of CO2 per per kWh).

This being winter, my car is averaging 3 miles to the kWh, so that's 3 miles for 104 grammes of CO2, or 34.7 grammes per mile, or 21.7 grammes per km.

Now, OK, today is quite a green day with plenty of low emissions generation going on. So let's take the average figure for the past year, near the bottom - 126 g / kWh. That would make my car about 26.3 grammes per km. In fact, in the interests of fairness, that 120g/km you mentioned, was of course the "official" figure - and we know those were wildly optimistic compared to real life usage, so if we're comparing like-with-like, I should use my "official" figure of 3.4 miles to the kWh, which brings me down to 23g/km of CO2...

...so really, I should be paying £20 a year...

(And mine's pretty "thirsty" by EV standards)!

 

[JohnD]

Harry does not want anyone talking about emissions from diesel cars.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

- something you wouldn't have been able to do with a diesel...

If I were that desperate, for diesel, on a farm, then I'm sure I could scrounge a gallon without any difficulty at all.

Have you ever seen what they charge on some sites, per Kw for hook up?

 

[Avocet]

If an EV fits, with the way you use a car, then that's fine for you. Don't assume everyone can effectively limit their range, or have access to a home charge point, or even any charge point when they might desperately need one, or can even plan their journeys ahead of time, so they can ensure they have an adequate charge.

My grandson, drives a company VW van, loaded to the limit, with tools and the parts he needs to do his job. His job takes him all over the country, at the drop of hat - like you, he clocks up around 20,000 miles per year. How could he even operate at all with an EV?

I don't do any of those things. I just drive it. I don't make sacrifices when it comes to heating (or aircon, heated seats or even heated steering wheel) - the climate control is set to exactly the same temperatures as in my last ICE car. My work has taken me as far South as Kent and as far North as the Scottish Highlands. If I have to do 500 miles in a day, I'll do 500 miles in a day. It's really not as hard or as scary as some folk like to make out. Yesterday, was Glasgow and back. Tomorrow, will be Manchester and back. I tend to plug in whenever I stop anyway. My record is 530 miles in one day. That took me about half an hour longer than the same trip would have done in an ICE car.

Now with a laden van, I'm very happy to accept that's not as easy. Depending on what sort of van it is, he'll maybe only be betting 100-150 miles out of a charge? I do accept that for vans, it's a bit harder.

 

[Avocet]

If I were that desperate, for diesel, on a farm, then I'm sure I could scrounge a gallon without any difficulty at all.

Have you ever seen what they charge on some sites, per Kw for hook up?

I doubt it will be much worse than the EV rapid charging companies are ripping us off for? How much are you paying per kWh? A typical rapid charger is around 89p / kWh.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Now with a laden van, I'm very happy to accept that's not as easy. Depending on what sort of van it is, he'll maybe only be betting 100-150 miles out of a charge? I do accept that for vans, it's a bit harder.

Or, if you were honest, impossible except for very short range local use. Great for delivering the likes of milk

 

[Avocet]

Or, if you were honest, impossible except for very short range local use. Great for delivering the likes of milk

If I'd meant that, I'd have written that...

You're still suckered by the "you'll have to spend hours on a charger" BS, because you've never tried it yourself and you don't know any better, but someone on the internet said it and it chimes with your existing prejudices, so you think it must be true...

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If I'd meant that, I'd have written that...

You're still suckered by the "you'll have to spend hours on a charger" BS, because you've never tried it yourself and you don't know any better, but someone on the internet said it and it chimes with your existing prejudices, so you think it must be true...

Enjoy the limitations of your milk float!

 

[StephenStephen]

...and sit there for hours whilst it recharged...

I'm guessing you don't drive an EV

 

[flameport]

Think of just towing to a field, in the UK - where, how do you recharge?

Does this caravan malarkey involve staying in the thing continuously for days/weeks and then returning home with it?

Or more likely is the car taken to other places and then parked? - which is when it would be charged.

Even if it is the staying in the field and doing nothing else, surely these caravan parks have electricity in them?