cables behind skirtings

[calumr135]

Hi, this is just a questions for you electricians, I am doing some labouring on site where flats are being built and I have noticed the wiring in them are not under the floor the whole ring circuit has been run loosely where the skirting board is going to be fitted, the cables are sitting in gap in between the floor and the bottom of the plasterboard!
This can't be right surely? This isn't just in one flat they are seem to be wired this way.
I am not a qualified electrician hence the question but even I know this can't be right?
As these are new builds this work has presumably been done by "qualified electricians". I dare challenge them as I will probably be told to **** off.

I genuinely feel for you good guys if this is the competition you are up against, I know you good guys exist and I have seen good electrical work from real electricians who take pride in their work.

Should I step up or should I ignore this?
I appreciate some feedback on this
thanks

 

[flameport]

Not a suitable location for cables.

this work has presumably been done by "qualified electricians".

Unlikely.

 

[JohnW2]

I am not a qualified electrician hence the question but even I know this can't be right? As these are new builds this work has presumably been done by "qualified electricians". I dare challenge them as I will probably be told to **** off.

It's certainly not right. Rather than 'challenging' too aggressively, you might perhaps consider 'expressing an interest' and indicating that you "didn't realise that such a routing of cables was allowed". You might still get told to **** off, but the risk would perhaps be a little lower!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Notch7]

Not a safe zone.

safes zones are clearly defined areas where unprotected cables are allowed, thats not one of them.

I wouldn't volunteer for fitting the skirtings

are you sure the floor doesnt need screeding? -on the ground floor its ok to route cable around above the floor insulation before the floor screed goes down.

 

[JohnW2]

... are you sure the floor doesnt need screeding? -on the ground floor its ok to route cable around above the floor insulation before the floor screed goes down.

Where are you thinking that the cables might end up?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Notch7]

Where are you thinking that the cables might end up?

Kind Regards, John

I was making an assumption they go into chases vertically up to sockets, ie within the safe zone. Im trying to see some logical explanation, even if it is a long shot. it seems crazy 1st fix could be done do badly on a new build.

 

[JohnW2]

I was making an assumption they go into chases vertically up to sockets, ie within the safe zone.

I presumed you were thinking that, but where were you thinking that the horizontal runs between sockets would end up after the floor was screeded?

Im trying to see some logical explanation, even if it is a long shot. it seems crazy 1st fix could be done do badly on a new build.

I agree, and wonder if there is something we're missing (or not being told in enough detail). For example, is this cable perhaps going to end up in some sort of trunking?

Kind Regards, John

 

[calumr135]

Unlikely.

Its a building site, surely its the managers responsibility to allow reputable electricians on site, not just any tom dick or harry from yellow pages?, mind you I guess anyone can call themselves an electrician.

are you sure the floor doesnt need screeding? -on the ground floor its ok to route cable around above the floor insulation before the floor screed goes down.

No screed just chipboard tongue and groove, All the flats are wired this way, the gap between the bottom of plasterboard and floor is about 20mm where the cables are tucked in.

 

[Notch7]

I presumed you were thinking that, but where were you thinking that the horizontal runs between sockets would end up after the floor was screeded?

I had imagined there would be no horizontal runs, if its a ring then each vertical would be 2 x 2.5mm.

We build orangeries and our electricans run the cables around the perimeter above the celetex, prior to screeding. I think they put the cable in that plastic copex type of flexible conduit. We have had other electricians that run the cables across the oversite, usually diagonally in the short route. Its a pain because we then have to mark out every sheet of insulation and cut out a channel, or use 2 thin sheets of insulation, cut first in between all the cables and next over.

 

[JohnW2]

No screed just chipboard tongue and groove, All the flats are wired this way, the gap between the bottom of plasterboard and floor is about 20mm where the cables are tucked in.

Will those cables be below 'finished floor level' once the T+G is down?

I ask because the regs seem surprisingly quiet about the matter of cables in floors (rather than walls), so if they are below FFL, they probably are not subject to any of the regs which would apply to cables "in walls".

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I had imagined there would be no horizontal runs, if its a ring then each vertical would be 2 x 2.5mm.

Yes, but those pairs of vertical cables would have to be connected, 'horizontally' to other sockets, wouldn't they?

Kind Regards, John

 

[calumr135]

Will those cables be below 'finished floor level' once the T+G is down?

I ask because the regs seem surprisingly quiet about the matter of cables in floors (rather than walls), so if they are below FFL, they probably are not subject to any of the regs which would apply to cables "in walls".

Kind Regards, John

I'm not too sure, the chipboard is already been layed, I think its just getting carpets or those cheap laminate type.
I think we can all agree its pure laziness regardless? I'm not an electrician but I would have made the effort and have the cables under the floor the way they should be. "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" springs to mind.

 

[JohnW2]

I'm not too sure, the chipboard is already been layed, I think its just getting carpets or those cheap laminate type.

Fair enough. If the cables were within 20mm of the floor before the T+G and floor covering went down, it's quite possible that they will end up "below FFL" - which, as I said, could have appreciable regulatory consequences.

I think we can all agree its pure laziness regardless? I'm not an electrician but I would have made the effort and have the cables under the floor the way they should be. "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" springs to mind.

I think we can agree that, unless something we haven't envisaged is going to happen to the cables, that it's far from satisfactory. Whether one can blame the electricians (for 'laziness' or anything else) is perhaps a different matter - it could be that they are simply doing exactly 'what they have been told to do' (by the 'designer'), which, in itself, might well be cost-driven.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Notch7]

Yes, but those pairs of vertical cables would have to be connected, 'horizontally' to other sockets, wouldn't they?

Yes, thats why I wondered if there was a floor screed to go down, in which case the horizontal cables would be in the floor

it appears not though:

No screed just chipboard tongue and groove, All the flats are wired this way, the gap between the bottom of plasterboard and floor is about 20mm where the cables are tucked in.

Does that make the cables in an acceptable safe zone then? I suppose if the cables are kept below the level of the floor boards, they are technically in the floor and not in the wall.......

So are electricians that work on new build sites registered with NICEIC etc and submit their certificate in the same way as if they were doing work for a private customer? Our electricians are very particular about ensuring their work is compliant and I know they get inspected by the NICEIC. I cant see how any professional electrician would want to get involved in putting cables in a questionable position, they may risk losing their membership.

 

[JohnW2]

Does that make the cables in an acceptable safe zone then? I suppose if the cables are kept below the level of the floor boards, they are technically in the floor and not in the wall.......

That's the point I've been making (or question I've been asking). Not "in an acceptable safe zone" (since, as far as I am aware, there are no "safe zones" in floors) but conceivably theoretically ('just about'!!) 'acceptable' (given that the regs say so little about cables in floors)

So are electricians that work on new build sites registered with NICEIC etc and submit their certificate in the same way as if they were doing work for a private customer?

As I've just written, they may be simply doing what they have been told to by the designer - and if it's a project of significant size, I imagine that it is the designer who will be signing the 'design' part of certificates. However, unless the design can (maybe as above) be argued to be (just about!) regs-compliant, the electricians might have a problem in signing the 'Construction' part of the certs.

Kind Regards, John