Can't get to outside of flue

[FiremanT]

I really can't see the problem, OB. POCs will never get back in, and a passer by is hardly likely to climb on the conservatory to tamper with it. IMO

 

[BazzaS]

Thank you old buffer a straight and non pretentious answer at last.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Because you might be considering breaking the law and therefore possibly killing someone.

I am being polite, so don't take me bad way, but really is it for you to stop anyone breaking the law, you are not a police man, it is a policeman's job to stop people breaking the law, whether you are speeding down a street and taking the law into your own hand and stopping all motorist from driving in their car just in case they may overspeed. I see people whooshing past me when I am doing 70 on motorway, these days it has become so dangerous to drive a car in 3rd lane even when you are doing 70,

These forums are very secretive about gas work, yet half of the RGIs don't know feck all about repairing or installing boilers.

So if I go to a shop and want to buy a knife, shop keeper won't be telling me that I can't have it because he fears I might stab someone with it. (unless he sees me as under 16)

It is always safer to give people the right advise even if you fear they may undertake the job themselves, I can sell lamborghini to you, I won't think twice why would you want such a car, it is capable of doing over 200mph.

Nothing worst than not giving people know how to do a job right even if it means they are going to break law, giving advise and breaking law are two different issues, you can buy a knife, but if you use it you will face the consequences, better be safe than sorry, if someone fails to get advice how to repair a boiler and contemplates it himself and ends up blowing a street, you are to blame for not giving him the advice he needed.

Let me see how many RGIs now rush to give me thumbs down and give each other thanks! wow! go ahead.

 

[just pumps]

WOW Mikefromlondon and to think that`s your first input to the thread.

Ok I`ll be nice and polite in reply so don`t take this the wrong way,
What yer smoking man?

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Not to worry mate, I was not digging at you specifically but general trend of these forums where lots of people come over to seek information and are denied for fear that they may contemplate their own repairs, but if you are honest to them and tell them why a particular task is not within their grasp, such as flues play a very crucial role in safety, as any bad joints or leaks can be fatal, that way a person is better informed and will avoid contemplating it themselves, but if you impress that only RGIs are licensed to open a couple of screws, they will think why? what is so difficult in undoing a couple of nuts and bolts!

Therefore without knowing full well or being explained about dangers of it, they could then end up fixing it themselves and take it apart, and not reassemble correctly or leave seals out, that is because they were denied information, and told to seek an RGI, when they already know that all gas work should be undertaken by an RGI, but did not want to take that route, many householders are inclined to tackle many easier things themselves despite knowing they may be breaking the law.

It is against the law to rape, kill someone, drive dangerously and so on, our courts are full of such cases, prisons are overcrowded, you cannot stop someone breaking a law if they want to, knowingly or unknowingly. But you can tell them how to learn to drive a car, how to use a knife safely, and it is up to them if they misuse it. Why do you think Youtube has no such policy, where RGIs show videos how to repair boilers and warn anyone doing it themselves is breaking the4 law, but should you deny them knowledge?

Car enthusiasts, boy racers, all want to beef up horse power and will go to any lengths to tune up their engines, add turbo chargers, intercoolers, and what not, forums don't hold back information they need for conversions, to achieve more power, yet we know more people are killed through road traffic accidents, yet there is no law against these youngsters from modifying their cars, yes most say they do it for track events, but rarely they do, and use those high powered cars for street racing. I don't go around stopping them or not parting information how to add a turbo and an intercooler and remap ECU to gain more HP, beef up con rods and and sports clutch, LSD.

I believe that if you tell people what is the problem and how it can be fixed, but also be warned that doing it themselves could be breaking the law and they alone will be responsible for any adverse consequences. They could be better advised that certain repairs should not be undertaken without experience, but not be denied with knowledge how such repairs can be done and what to look out for is far more dangerous.

so if one must do it then they alone take on a risk, breaking the law, etc, and warned to watch out for this or that, that is where it is more safer to tell them to watch out for any pitfalls. So if you don't tell them, they are still going to go ahead and break the law, and do it without being aware of hidden dangers.

 

[Dan Robinson]

About sums up your lack of social responsibility nicely Mike.

You really are the dregs of slum landlord society, but feel free to pontificate and obfuscate all you like. Those of us that have been here a while know what kind of person you are.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Your signature mentions "never underestimate the persistence of stupidity" and it will never ends with you, so you should rewrite it " never underestimate my persistence of stupidity".

If You have something about London Slum Landlords, you need to see a psychiatrist. or stand as a candidate for mayor Of London and ban all slum landlords.

 

[dilalio]

MI's > Gas Safe rules.
Forum Rules > English Law.

 

[AGAS]

LSD.

was it good last night , are you enjoying the come down . come on man you know yourself , A LITTLE INFORMATION CAN BE DANGEROUS INFORMATION . your not stupid and understand this and of course think about forum rules ( which are there for a reason ), and you would be surprised how giving information from one self can backfire on oneself , not just talking legally .

 

[bernardgreen]

so if one must do it then they alone take on a risk, breaking the law, etc, and warned to watch out for this or that, that is where it is more safer to tell them to watch out for any pitfalls. So if you don't tell them, they are still going to go ahead and break the law, and do it without being aware of hidden dangers.

Well said Mike

 

[dilalio]

You two just keep plugging away at what 'you think' should be permissible on this forum. You have nothing to lose by suggesting things you are not qualified to advise upon.
Perhaps, if you had a vested interest in the industry and activities within it; and your livelihoods depended on adhering to the strict rules in order to retain the 'license' that allows you to continue trading, you 'might' think differently.

 

[bernardgreen]

if you had a vested interest in the industry and activities within it; and your livelihoods depended on adhering to the strict rules in order to retain the 'license' that allows you to continue trading,

Unfortunately not all "license" holders adhere to the strict rules and it appears that some licencing organisations are not detecting all of these rogue tradesmen and tradeswomen.
Maybe removing a licence holder from their organisation would reduce the income to their organisation and thus affect the livelihoods of people running said organisation.

I had a vested interest is several aspects of the electronics industry and activities within it. One aspect was the safety of machinery controlled by electronic systems where failure in the control system or mis operation of controls must not allow a hazardous situation to develop.

I also have an interest in safety in the domestic environment where the average house owner or tenant has to rely on tradespeople being competant in the work they do and being unbiased when giving advice and guidance on improvements or repairs to the building or it's services. I subscribe to a mailing list where accidents and their causes are discussed by those who investigate such accidents

In 1964 between leaving school and starting a career I worked for a few months as a labourer for a jobbing builder. He was a bodger with no respect for the people he worked for nor for the buildings he worked on. Converting houses into flats was very lucrative to him. A few years later I read in the newspapers that he had been found guilty of manslaughter after a child and it's father died from carbon monoxide in a bath room where he had fitted an Ascot water heater without ensuring adequate ventilation.

I see no reason not to advise a person who is concerned about the actions of a tradesperson. It might be that the tradesperson is no longer fit to hold a licence and is carrying out work that is substandard and may even be dangerous. In which case hopefully the licencing organisation can be informed, the tradesperson's work examined and if found to be negligent then the licence should be revoked.

Unfortunately most members of the public trust a licenced tradesperson and do not have the knowledge necessary to appraise the standard of the work being done and identify defective and / or negligent work or advice.

If you have a genuine interest in improving the standards of your trade organisation and the standard of licence holding tradespeople then I see no reason to refuse help to those members of the public who have concerns about work being carried out in their homes by licenced tradespeople.

 

[dilalio]

Unfortunately not all "license" holders adhere to the strict rules and it appears that some licencing organisations are not detecting all of these rogue tradesmen and tradeswomen.
Maybe removing a licence holder from their organisation would reduce the income to their organisation and thus affect the livelihoods of people running said organisation.

I had a vested interest is several aspects of the electronics industry and activities within it. One aspect was the safety of machinery controlled by electronic systems where failure in the control system or mis operation of controls must not allow a hazardous situation to develop.

I also have an interest in safety in the domestic environment where the average house owner or tenant has to rely on tradespeople being competant in the work they do and being unbiased when giving advice and guidance on improvements or repairs to the building or it's services. I subscribe to a mailing list where accidents and their causes are discussed by those who investigate such accidents

In 1964 between leaving school and starting a career I worked for a few months as a labourer for a jobbing builder. He was a bodger with no respect for the people he worked for nor for the buildings he worked on. Converting houses into flats was very lucrative to him. A few years later I read in the newspapers that he had been found guilty of manslaughter after a child and it's father died from carbon monoxide in a bath room where he had fitted an Ascot water heater without ensuring adequate ventilation.

I see no reason not to advise a person who is concerned about the actions of a tradesperson. It might be that the tradesperson is no longer fit to hold a licence and is carrying out work that is substandard and may even be dangerous. In which case hopefully the licencing organisation can be informed, the tradesperson's work examined and if found to be negligent then the licence should be revoked.

Unfortunately most members of the public trust a licenced tradesperson and do not have the knowledge necessary to appraise the standard of the work being done and identify defective and / or negligent work or advice.

If you have a genuine interest in improving the standards of your trade organisation and the standard of licence holding tradespeople then I see no reason to refuse help to those members of the public who have concerns about work being carried out in their homes by licenced tradespeople.

But these are all "YOUR" opinions and 'hold no water'... and they certainly shouldn't 'hold any gas'

You cannot appoint yourself as the 'gas zar' Bernard... if you feel this strongly and believe that every gas engineer is a potential rogue trader then I suggest you contact Gas Safe and see if they will take you on, to kick the whole feckin body... from the top down, into shape!!
Good luck with that.

 

[Steelmasons]

Isn't it time for your mid-morning nap Bernard???...

 

[Mikefromlondon]

Why I despise RGIs who claim to be professionals and highly competent, because they rip off ordinary people and slum landlords, and professional landlords like me, here is one most recent example:
My Ex Tenant who bought his own house is suing a certain reputable company (NG) who installed his boiler and charged him £3,800.00 just the boiler, no full CH, the RGI left his wiring in such a dangerous state, live neutral and earth conductors being wired into mains spur from the edge of the front plate of the spur, and the rest of the mains flex running diagonally across his kitchen worktop, suspended barely 2 feet above, and heading into his new vaillant 838 boiler.

2. He left the inner flue seal out and you can see at least 1/2" gaps between the flue and wall.

3. He did not wire his room thermostat and left the boiler with a loop in RT instead of wiring it to his existing Nest thermostat.

4. He did not feed the mains cord through appropriate glands and entry points, and it entered the boiler control board from again the edge leaving its electronics exposed from the rear as the lid won't shut due to mains cord fed from wrong place.

5. On the contract the company had agreed to carry out system flush (power flush) but the installer did not do this.

6. He filled up the Benchmark and got the new owner to sign, and now it has gone two months no one has been back to finalise the installation if you assume it was wired as a temporary only.

7. The owner made many calls to the company, each time he rang a receptionist transferred his call directly to the Installation team where he was asked to leave a message and someone will call back.
No one called him back

8. THe owner could not use his CH as it had been left at 75c flow temp. and his RT was not wired in. he was not shown how to use the controls.

This is Gas safe work.,

So guess who had to go and complete the job? exactly someone more competent. and it won't be cheap either, so I have asked my ex tenant to sue NG and seek well over a grand in componsation for inconvenience and leaving the appliance in a dangerous state and room state not wired in, which i believe is now illegal if not wire it in.

I am not sure if the inner flue seal is a legally required item, but another RGI told me it is only for cosmetic purpose, but I see it as a second line of defence if the outer seal fails.