ceiling fans, gas safety and building regs?

[mikhailfaradayski]

HI All,

Got asked an interesting question by a Gas installer today.

Is there anything in the wiring or building regs that you're aware of that cause problems with installing ceiling mounted fans in rooms where there are gas fires?

Apparently the fans can cause the flue gases to spill back into the room and make a sleepy house.

Stumped me a bit, I don't recall seeing anything like this, but i haven't read every last little bit of every document ever produced.

Anyone come across this before?

 

[skenk]

You could try asking in the plumbing forum but you'll probably just get a load of dogs abuse and smart-arse comments!

All I know is that vented appliances need a certain amount of ventilation into the room

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Its more to do with if there was anything written to tell an electrician not to do such a job or enlighten them as to the possible danger.

I was aware of the vents for fire thing, but this was to do solely to do with ceiling mounted fans, thanks anyway.

Plumbing forum? Abuse? Really?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm not sure about the regs. either but came across a house once which was so well sealed by double glazed plastic windows and doors that when they were all closed the fire would go out.
The owners had to have a vent installed in the floor next to the fire(s).

Before the vent was fitted had there been a ceiling (or wall) fan in the room the only way air would have been able to enter would have been down the flue.

I would assume there would have to be a vent, suitably placed, large enough to allow more air to enter than that evacuated by the fan and the flue.

Better to have a draughty old house. It's a lot healthier.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Thanks, but I'm not talking about an extractor fan of any kind, just one of those light fittings with a fan attached. The air it moves will stay in the room, but will pass by any fire and may upset the balance of flue pressures or summink

something like this

Untitled

• mikhailfaradayski
• 14 Mar 2011
• 1

 

[flameport]

http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file11332.pdf

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Cheers Flameport

 

[stem]

Is there anything in the wiring or building regs that you're aware of that cause problems with installing ceiling mounted fans in rooms where there are gas fires?

Apparently the fans can cause the flue gases to spill back into the room and make a sleepy house.

Something odd here. Why would anyone have a gas fire and a fan both on at the same time? If you're too hot wouldn't you turn the gas fire off?

Perhaps these people when driving in order to slow, instead of easing off the accelerator they keep pressure on the accererator and use their other foot to operate the brake at the same time. Sounds crazy to me.

I suppose a back boiler could be heating hot water in the summer, but the OP is referring to "gas fires"

 

[flameport]

Why would anyone have a gas fire and a fan both on at the same time? If you're too hot wouldn't you turn the gas fire off?

Sensible people would. However other types of people are available.

Ceiling fans can be used in reverse to move warm air from the ceiling to a lower level.
Some gas fires are decorative only, rather than for heating the room.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Is there anything in the wiring or building regs that you're aware of that cause problems with installing ceiling mounted fans in rooms where there are gas fires?

Apparently the fans can cause the flue gases to spill back into the room and make a sleepy house.

Something odd here. Why would anyone have a gas fire and a fan both on at the same time? If you're too hot wouldn't you turn the gas fire off?

Perhaps these people when driving in order to slow, instead of easing off the accelerator they keep pressure on the accererator and use their other foot to operate the brake at the same time. Sounds crazy to me.

I suppose a back boiler could be heating hot water in the summer, but the OP is referring to "gas fires"

Hi, yes, i'm referring to a 'gas fire' (its a fire which uses gas, quite a lot of houses have them). Why the two devices would be used that way has no bearing here. The question came from a gas fitter who carries out flue tests and all that good stuff associated with gas fires. As you will see from the link which flameport very kindly provided, it seems as though it is considered to be a real situation by a group of people who have bothered to look into it

Perhaps worded poorly, but i also said in the OP that the fitter asked me if there was anything (advice, guidance, rules, suggestions, warnings etc) in the wiring or building regs which informed an electrician of the potential issue of flue gases spilling into the room.

Although i don't really see what driving with your foot on the brake has got to do with the price of eggs in Rome, it would be a silly thing to do, but won't result in you dieing from potential carbon monoxide poisoning

 

[ricicle]

The problem arises from the potential of moving air causing low pressure pockets in the room which could encourage fuel gases to enter the room rather than convect up the flue naturally.

Have a look at Approved doc. F as well as it's mentioned in there.

 

[flameport]

Problems can also occur with extractor fans. Was called in to disconnect an old kitchen extractor fan a while ago, because there was an open flue gas boiler in the same kitchen.
When the gas person tested the boiler, it worked fine. However they discovered that as soon as the extractor was switched on, fumes spilled into the room.

While the solution was an easy fix (and the customer didn't actually use the extractor anyway) what was more concerning is that despite the boiler being serviced annually for many years by various people, this extractor issue hadn't been identified before.

 

[stem]

Sorry mikhailfaradayski, obviously I've offended you, I wasn't trying to. It just occurred to me strange that anyone would try to heat and cool at the same time. Hence the analogy with the car, as no one would accelerate and brake at the same time. I wasn't disagreeing with you, it was just an observation.

Please accept my apologies, I will try to be a little more careful in future.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

No worries

But just to expand on your point, which flameport has already suggested, people may choose to use the fan simply to give better circulation of the warmth from the fire around the house.

Sensible? -Open for debate.

Possible? -Certainly

The guys point was really to do with where the liability may fall if an electrician was to fit one of these things and had unwittingly created a potential danger.

After that discussion with the Gas guy, this post here and Flameport's link. Me personally, will be more cautious about doing such job, but how common is this knowledge? How many sparkies would even appreciate the danger?