Ceiling rose to modern fitting

[Gallois]

I was wondering if someone could help me understand the wiring arrangement in the picture. I've looked on the wiki about ceiling roses and modern lights. I think I need to put a new junction box in the loft above the rose that replicates the wiring arrangement and then feed a single new three core down to feed the new fitting. But I can't seem to make sense of the wiring to be able to replicate it. Many thanks.

Ceiling rose

• Gallois
• 19 Feb 2013
• 1

Trying to work out the configuration to replicate in new junction box above.

 

[EFLImpudence]

All you have to do is copy it and connect the actual lamp wires to the same wires as they are now.
The three wires in the centre terminal must be connected together but to nothing else.

In my opinion (although it makes no difference operationally) the switch wires would logically make more sense if they were swapped.
That is the black wire in the loop (centre) terminal and the red wire in the switched live (right) terminal (this black should be sleeved red).

Then -
All the red wires would be permanently live.
One black would be switched live (sleeved red).
The other two blacks are neutral.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I was wondering if someone could help me understand the wiring arrangement in the picture. I've looked on the wiki about ceiling roses and modern lights. I think I need to put a new junction box in the loft above the rose that replicates the wiring arrangement and then feed a single new three core down to feed the new fitting. But I can't seem to make sense of the wiring to be able to replicate it.

The reason why you cannot find a replication of this, is because the three central wires, (known as the live loop) should be all reds.(The ones circled red/white on picture) These would go in to the spare connection block on new fitting (or you will require to install one)
The black in your loop (that I have sleeved red) would go to the live side (switch live) of your new fitting.
The remaining blacks to neutral of new fitting
and cpc/earth to earth terminal.
It is best to keep these conductors contained within the fitting, rather than have them in the loft space/tucked in ceiling void.

Picture Title

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 19 Feb 2013
• 1

Picture Title

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 19 Feb 2013
• 1

 

[Gallois]

Thank you so much to both of you - I really appreciate you taking the time. The annotated picture was especially useful.

I'm planning to connect the three circled reds into a terminal block and wrap it with insulation tape. Then connect the switched live black should be red sleeved to live, and the remaining two blacks to neutral, with the three earths all going to earth.

Would that be ok inside the light fitting?

I'm so impressed at the help I've got here - I'm going to try and explain my next problem in another post, which I've always tried to ignore - upstairs/downstairs switches not turning lights on/off as intended.

 

[slup]

I'm planning to connect the three circled reds into a terminal block and wrap it with insulation tape.

No, it's the three wires in the middle that need to go into the block (one black, two red).

Forget about the insulation tape as well - it serves no purpose and just makes everything sticky...

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

No, it's the three wires in the middle that need to go into the block (one black, two red).

I think the others are trying to get him to swap the switch wires around. So black (with red marker/sleeve) is the "switched wire" as opposed to the red, as it is now. (Or was! Depends how fast he is!!!)

 

[slup]

Sure - I appreciate that, but it still makes putting the three circled wires into a block wrong - it's the middle three that would need to be joined - regardless of what colour they are.

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Okley Dokley

 

[Gallois]

Okley Dokley

Ok so the switched live (black but should be sleeved red) and the two reds next to it in the centre all into the same terminal block (not attached to anything).

Then the remaining two blacks both into the neutral connector of fitting and the remaining red into the live connector of fitting. That leaves the 3 earths to connect to the earth connector on the fitting.

Have I understood correctly? Thanks again.

 

[Gallois]

Well I had a go and wired it up as slup suggested. But that didn't work and the next set of lights along in the kitchen didn't work either.

So I wired as PrenticeBoyofDerry suggested - and it works fine.

Thanks again

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

So I wired as PrenticeBoyofDerry suggested - and it works fine.
Thanks again

I think you will also find that EFLImpudence steered you in the same directionon as I.

 

[slup]

Confused to say the least, but glad you got it working!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Confused to say the least,

Read posts 2 and 3.

 

[slup]

The three wires that PBoD circled in the photo were two from the live loop, and the switched live out to the lampholder.

If the Live/Switched live had been swapped over, then the instructions to join the three red wires was then correct, but the photo was still wrong.

In either case, joining the three circled wires can't have worked, which means that the OP must have swapped the black and red, then joined the three reds.

 

[EFLImpudence]

If the Live/Switched live had been swapped over, then the instructions to join the three red wires was then correct,

There you go.

but the photo was still wrong.

Well, he couldn't alter the photo, could he?
He just noted which wire to connect where.

In either case, joining the three circled wires can't have worked, which means that the OP must have swapped the black and red, then joined the three reds.

That's what the two posts told him to do - so he did.

It just seemed illogical to use the black for permanent live an red for switched live so was advised to swap.