Central Heating Nightmare - Please help me!

[Slugbabydotcom]

I have an idea that may sort out some of the problems you and your plumber are having.
Ask a few of your neighbours if you can have a look at their houses to see how other plumbers have got over these problems.
This should help you decide if his pipe routes are reasonable or not. Do be careful though that you are comparing like for like installations.

 

[2scoops0406]

Well I'm no plumber either, but one thing I would guess is that there seems to be a very real danger of those pipe getting kicked flat fairly quickly.

 

[chrishutt]

The question now is what do we do?!

Firstly, well done for confronting the overbearing one. I know it can be a hard thing to do. So you did well, especially in withholding payment - that's puts you in an excellent negotiating position.

In essence what you have to do is make a list of all the things that aren't satisfactory - damage, unfinished items, incorrectly installed pipes, etc. It would be a good idea to get a heating engineer in to check the work - chances are there are many shortcomings, even illegal aspects.

For example, is the boiler a condensing boiler? Are there thermostatic rad valves and a room stat installed? Has the system been properly flushed and commissioned? You could post a photo of the boiler and pipework around it for our comments, but an on-site inspection would still be valuable.

You will end up with a list of all sorts of remedial works required, which will cost loads. Then you must decide how much you realistically need to deduct from the bill to gain reasonable compensation. Consider how the arrogant one will view it - 10% loss he might shrug off, 20% maybe, 30% or more he would probably fight against. So be pragmatic about what deduction you will ask for.

Then make a written offer to the insensitive one, listing all the faults, damages, etc., and offer a certain figure in "full and final settlement" of the account. If he accepts this, pay by cheque and make sure he signs a statement that he accepts this as full and final settlement. If he doesn't accept it, inform him that you will seek a deduction of the full amount of damages, etc. if he takes the matter to court.

Chances are that the domineering one will accept a quick settlement, albeit with a lot of huffing and puffing. Remember that holding the money gives you the whip hand, so it's your turn to give him a taste of his own medicine.

 

[PaulAH]

Humbug - If you are going show the arrogant one this website, may I humbly suggest that you go back to the posting where you show the pictures and place a carriage return between each URL reference.

As they stand, they're all on the same line, making the page so wide the text runs off-margin. He will be reluctant enough to read it all - don't make it any harder for him!

 

[chrishutt]

If you are going show the arrogant one this website

Might not be such a good idea, since I've outlined a strategy and tactics for you! We don't want to show our hand, do we?

 

[PaulAH]

Quite right, Chris. Our postings crossed. But she could do the URL bit anyway!

 

[humbug]

WOW! Thank you for all the amazing advice!

Dont worry I wont share my diynot secret with the baddies!

I am going to ask a heating engineer to come around and have a look and I am also going to write a list and deduct the amount from the payment. I will write a leter saying why I have done this and that this is full and final payment. I think you are right Chris, he will have to accept it. At first I worried 'what if he took us to small claims court!' but if he did he would be drawing attention to himself, his bad workmanship, and everything else. He used to trade as a different company which he liquidated so as not to have to pay off debts, so i doubt he will want to cause himself any more hassle. And Yes, maybe that should have put me off letting him do the work but I didnt really understand what it meant until now!
The boiler looks (like I know!) like it is plumbed in nicely, it is very neat, unfortunately it is in what used to be the airing cupboard next to the downstairs bathroom and we were going to plasterboard in here- but HE ripped the ceiling out and cut some of the roof timbers to get the header tank out (which he dumped behind our garage!!) instead of using the ready made loft hatch! I didnt even notice (dont often look up!) until my boyfriend pointed it out! Great!
Here is the boiler! Just incase you fancied a look!

THANK YOU for your support and advice- its been really super duper and I am SO grateful! And I am happy too- I feel positive and assured and not all whimpy and feeble like I did last week! CHEERS!

 

[humbug]

Oh! MEant to say Chris- it is a Combi boiler. There are thermostats on each radiator (which HE has taken the plain caps off and replaced with ones which have his company name on! Not happy that he is advertising in my bedroom!!) and they did flush the system through, HE said it had to be Chlorinated but I didnt see any evidence of this, and didnt smell any chlorine/bleachy smells when they drained it outside and inside (yup!) our conservatory/lean-to thingy! But maybe it doesnt smell? It seems to be working okay, the radiators heat up and stuff! I dont know- I think I have been very silly and not understood what I was letting myself in for.
I will know next time! Gulp... next time?!!!

 

[PaulAH]

Plumbing looks tidy enough. But what about those electrics!

 

[Gasman1015]

Is that a steamer.?

 

[humbug]

The whole thing (apart from this beautifully neat pipework!) is a nightmare. when you think of all the rectifying that need to be done I am afraid that it will cost nearly as much as he charged (£2375)
I certainly wont be poking my fingers in there!

 

[humbug]

A Steamer?
Do you mean condenser? I dont understand! It is a combi ( I think!) it could be anything really for all I know! But, I am learning! (wish I didnt have to!)

 

[chrishutt]

I feel positive and assured and not all wimpy and feeble like I did last week!

Ah, the therapeutic power of the DIYnot forum! Sometimes it even makes me feel OK too!

About your boiler. Firstly it looks like an Ariston, which is a "cheap and cheerful" brand. But....it doesn't appear to be a condensing boiler (no condensate drain). This is contrary to the Building Regulations Part L, which have required since April of this year that all new boilers are condensing boilers.

Non compliance with the Building Regulations will also mean that the installer has not completed and issued the Benchmark Certificate (A5 blue colour) and probably that he has not fitted a room stat or flushed out the system. Non compliance could possibly cause problems in the future when selling the house.

It would also be interesting to know where the pipe on the extreme left terminates. This is the Pressure Release Valve discharge pipe and should run through the wall to the outside. Does it? I have to agree that the pipework is neatly installed - a pity the same can't be said for the wiring.

In relation to the action you're taking, don't make any payment to the installer until he has agreed to accept your offer as "full and final settlement". If you send him a cheque first, he may simply bank it and then continue to claim the outstanding amount.

You should also check whether the installer is really Corgi registered - visit the Corgi web site.

HE said it had to be Chlorinated

Another warning sign! The system should have had an inhibitor added, but definitely not Chlorine. Sounds as if he doesn't know his subject very well.

By the way, a picture of the flue terminal (and surrounding features - windows, etc.) might be useful.

 

[Gasman1015]

Yes, I mean a condensing boiler, combi or otherwise, do you live in Scotland.

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

I see no condensate pipe

or is that it on the left

If so does is there another pipe that goes straight out of the back??

A condensing boiler has 7 pipes in total

What is the model of the boiler?