Change from batten globe to light fitting with 3 wires

[Gtp71]

Can someone tell me where I have gone wrong. When powered up the light flashes on and off. No loose wires but i suspect this is looped at the light and I have bypassed the switch by accident. Originally this was a batten fixture that had a loop connection, whereas the new light fitting does not.

If you can’t see wiring there is a red and white from the switch, blue and brown and earth from light fitting and 3 core red black and earth.

Photos are old batten holder and new fitting with 3 wires

 

[foxhole]

The new fitting should have just three wires connected, switched live, neutral and earth.

 

[Gtp71]

Ok, so so the live should be terminated

 

[Gtp71]

The new fitting should have just three wires connected, switched live, neutral and earth.

Ok, so basically keep all earth together, all neutral together but then separate out the 3 reds where the switched live and switch remain together but the live that was in the batten loop is just terminated with a connector and not connected to anything

 

[foxhole]

Ok, so basically keep all earth together, all neutral together but then separate out the 3 reds where the switched live and switch remain together but the live that was in the batten loop is just terminated with a connector and not connected to anything

No , the supply to switch is connected to the live. The switched live to the fitting.

 

[FrodoOne]

Can someone tell me where I have gone wrong. When powered up the light flashes on and off. No loose wires but i suspect this is looped at the light and I have bypassed the switch by accident. Originally this was a batten fixture that had a loop connection, whereas the new light fitting does not.

If you can’t see wiring there is a red and white from the switch, blue and brown and earth from light fitting and 3 core red black and earth.

Photos are old batten holder and new fitting with 3 wires

You have somewhat lost me with all of this.

There are three Photos.
1 - a "mess" of wires and connectors
2 - a batten holder with Line (Red), Neutral (Black) and Earth (Green/Yellow) cable connected
plus a single (Black) Neutral conductor.
3 - a batten holder with a Cable with two Red insulated conductors, another single Neutral (Black) conductor
and who knows what behind, which cannot be seen
(which seems to be a different bittern holder ?)

A cable with Red and White insulated conductors is the normal Australian Switch Loop connection, for Line and Switched line respectively.

The photo below shows the "normal" Australian (switched) batten holder connections - (rather badly)

Lighting-Gallery.net - Electrical/How a simple single lamp holder and switch are wired in Australia

www.lighting-gallery.net

The incoming (Red) Line conductor is connected in the "Loop" terminal,
together with the (Red) Line conductor to the Switch.
The (White) Switched-Line conductor from the Switch connects to one of the bayonet Contact Pin connections in the bittern holder.
The (Black) incoming Neutral conductor is connected to the other bayonet Contact Pin connection.
The Green/Yellow Earth conductor is connected to the (pseudo) "Earth" terminal - which goes nowhere, since this device is all plastic and does not require "Earthing".

Your new fitting will need to have
the incoming (Red) Line conductor connected to the (Red) "Line" conductor to the Switch - using an appropriate connector.
The (White) Switched-Line conductor from the Switch must connect to the Line (probably Brown) conductor of the Limp fitting.
The incoming (Black) Neutral conductor connects to the Neutral (probably Blue) conductor of the Lamp fitting.
The (Green/Yellow) incoming Earth conductor connects to the Earth (?) connection of the Lamp fitting.

 

[Gtp71]

You have somewhat lost me with all of this.

There are three Photos.
1 - a "mess" of wires and connectors
2 - a batten holder with Line (Red), Neutral (Black) and Earth (Green/Yellow) cable connected
plus a single (Black) Neutral conductor.
3 - a batten holder with a Cable with two Red insulated conductors, another single Neutral (Black) conductor
and who knows what behind, which cannot be seen
(which seems to be a different bittern holder ?)

A cable with Red and White insulated conductors is the normal Australian Switch Loop connection, for Line and Switched line respectively.

The photo below shows the "normal" Australian (switched) batten holder connections - (rather badly)

Lighting-Gallery.net - Electrical/How a simple single lamp holder and switch are wired in Australia

www.lighting-gallery.net

The incoming (Red) Line conductor is connected in the "Loop" terminal,
together with the (Red) Line conductor to the Switch.
The (White) Switched-Line conductor from the Switch connects to one of the bayonet Contact Pin connections in the bittern holder.
The (Black) incoming Neutral conductor is connected to the other bayonet Contact Pin connection.
The Green/Yellow Earth conductor is connected to the (pseudo) "Earth" terminal - which goes nowhere, since this device is all plastic and does not require "Earthing".

Your new fitting will need to have
the incoming (Red) Line conductor connected to the (Red) "Line" conductor to the Switch - using an appropriate connector.
The (White) Switched-Line conductor from the Switch must connect to the Line (probably Brown) conductor of the Limp fitting.
The incoming (Black) Neutral conductor connects to the Neutral (probably Blue) conductor of the Lamp fitting.
The (Green/Yellow) incoming Earth conductor connects to the Earth (?) connection of the Lamp fitting.

 

[Gtp71]

Hi,

Can appreciate these photos are hard to see. What I can confirm is the batten is the same original batten that has always been there take from different sides

 

[FrodoOne]

Can appreciate these photos are hard to see. What I can confirm is the batten is the same original batten that has always been there take from different sides

Photos 2 and 3 appear to show that you have one cable with 4 conductors,
two Red
one Black
and
one Green/Yellow
plus
a cable with a single Black (Neutral) conductor.
(Please confirm or correct.)
The terminal diagonally opposite the Black (Neutral) bayonet contact pin conductor's terminal will be the Switched-Line bayonet contact pin conductor terminal - with one red wire connected to it.
The Earth connection terminal (rimmed in Green) goes nowhere
as does the other single Red connected terminal - which is probably ladled "L" for Loop.
What that latter Red conductor does I have no idea.

In Post #1, you wrote

If you can’t see wiring there is a red and white from the switch, blue and brown and earth from light fitting and 3 core red black and earth.

Where is this Red and White Switch-Loop cable, since no White insulated conductor can be seen in photos #2 and #3?
You wrote "3 core red black and earth" - which I would expect.
However, your photos do not look like that!

 

[securespark]

The photo with the wires connected to the lamp holder...

Is it working? Does the lamp come on and off with the switch and do all the other lights on the circuit work?

If so, just keep that configuration in the new fitting, making sure the wires that go to the lamp terminal on the lamp holder go to L and N on the new fitting, along with the earth if needed.

 

[Gtp71]

You have somewhat lost me with all of this.

There are three Photos.
1 - a "mess" of wires and connectors
2 - a batten holder with Line (Red), Neutral (Black) and Earth (Green/Yellow) cable connected
plus a single (Black) Neutral conductor.
3 - a batten holder with a Cable with two Red insulated conductors, another single Neutral (Black) conductor
and who knows what behind, which cannot be seen
(which seems to be a different bittern holder ?)

A cable with Red and White insulated conductors is the normal Australian Switch Loop connection, for Line and Switched line respectively.

The photo below shows the "normal" Australian (switched) batten holder connections - (rather badly)

Lighting-Gallery.net - Electrical/How a simple single lamp holder and switch are wired in Australia

www.lighting-gallery.net

The incoming (Red) Line conductor is connected in the "Loop" terminal,
together with the (Red) Line conductor to the Switch.
The (White) Switched-Line conductor from the Switch connects to one of the bayonet Contact Pin connections in the bittern holder.
The (Black) incoming Neutral conductor is connected to the other bayonet Contact Pin connection.
The Green/Yellow Earth conductor is connected to the (pseudo) "Earth" terminal - which goes nowhere, since this device is all plastic and does not require "Earthing".

Your new fitting will need to have
the incoming (Red) Line conductor connected to the (Red) "Line" conductor to the Switch - using an appropriate connector.
The (White) Switched-Line conductor from the Switch must connect to the Line (probably Brown) conductor of the Limp fitting.
The incoming (Black) Neutral conductor connects to the Neutral (probably Blue) conductor of the Lamp fitting.
The (Green/Yellow) incoming Earth conductor connects to the Earth (?) connection of the Lamp fitting.

Appreciate your help and it makes sense. Still not working and to try and simplify it I have attached a photo of the switch where the bottom switch controls the new light fixture. I have also drawn a diagram of where the wiring went of the original light batten holder and where it goes now via suitable connectors.

 

[Gtp71]

The photo with the wires connected to the lamp holder...

Is it working? Does the lamp come on and off with the switch and do all the other lights on the circuit work?

If so, just keep that configuration in the new fitting, making sure the wires that go to the lamp terminal on the lamp holder go to L and N on the new fitting, along with the earth if needed.

Yes the batten works. The difference being the batten has 4 connectors and the new fitting has 3 wires. I have since posted a photo of the switch and how the old batten was wired against the new fitting to troubleshoot where I have gone wrong

 

[FrodoOne]

Here is a picture of a typical Bittern Holder and its "connections".

https://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/Electrician/images/BattenHolder.gif

In this picture, only the two "horizontally pictured" terminals connect to the Bayonet Spring Terminals.
The green circled Earth terminal is just a place to "park" the unneeded Earth conductor (or join two Earth conductors - see below).
In the case "pictured", the Line (Red) is a Switched-Line coming from the switch, together with the Neutral and Earth.

The "L" (Loop terminal) is there if you need to connect two other conductors together -
as would occur if the incoming Line and Neutral and Earth cable came to this point
and
a connection point was required, for the incoming Line and the Line connection to a switch (with the Switched- Line coming from the Switch to one of the Bayonet Spring Terminals.

Since "batten works."
and
Photos #2 and #3 in Post 1 show that the incoming Line, Neutral and Earth cable has
the Neutral (Black) conductor connected to one Bayonet Spring Terminal,
the "Line" wire connected to the Loop terminal - going nowhere (!) -
but
a single (Red) conductor "Cable" is connected to the other Bayonet Spring Terminal,
the Switched-Line to the batten holder must be that single (Red) conductor "Cable",
which seems to be pictured going to Terminal #1 of the bottom Switch in Photos #2 and #3 in Post #11.

This is easily tested - by using a Voltmeter and turning the relevant switch ON and OFF.

(I suggest that "single conductor cable" may be better wording than "single sheath".)

It appears that the single (Black) conductor "Cable",
connected to the (Black) Neutral conductor of the the incoming Line, Neutral and Earth cable in Picture #2 of Post #1
goes to the "Loop" terminal of the bottom Switch in Pictures #2 and #3 of Post #11 - and does NOTHING!

To get your light fitting to work, you will need to
connect the single (Red) conductor "Cable" (at the ceiling) to the fitting's Line conductor,
connect the Neutral (Black) conductor of the incoming Line, Neutral an Earth cable to the fitting's Neutral conductor,
(disconnect the single (Black) conductor "Cable")
connect the Earth (Green/Yellow) conductor of the incoming Line, Neutral an Earth cable the fitting's Earth conductor
and
terminate/isolate the (apparently unused) Red conductor of the incoming Line, Neutral an Earth cable in a suitable "connector".

The single (Black) conductor "Cable" seems to go nowhere (except to a Loop terminal on the Switch) and does nothing !?!?!
One wonders, who wired this up in this manner - and why?


Good Luck!

 

[Gtp71]

Here is a picture of a typical Bittern Holder and its "connections".

https://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/Electrician/images/BattenHolder.gif

In this picture, only the two "horizontally pictured" terminals connect to the Bayonet Spring Terminals.
The green circled Earth terminal is just a place to "park" the unneeded Earth conductor (or join two Earth conductors - see below).
In the case "pictured", the Line (Red) is a Switched-Line coming from the switch, together with the Neutral and Earth.

The "L" (Loop terminal) is there if you need to connect two other conductors together -
as would occur if the incoming Line and Neutral and Earth cable came to this point
and
a connection point was required, for the incoming Line and the Line connection to a switch (with the Switched- Line coming from the Switch to one of the Bayonet Spring Terminals.

Since "batten works."
and
Photos #2 and #3 in Post 1 show that the incoming Line, Neutral and Earth cable has
the Neutral (Black) conductor connected to one Bayonet Spring Terminal,
the "Line" wire connected to the Loop terminal - going nowhere (!) -
but
a single (Red) conductor "Cable" is connected to the other Bayonet Spring Terminal,
the Switched-Line to the batten holder must be that single (Red) conductor "Cable",
which seems to be pictured going to Terminal #1 of the bottom Switch in Photos #2 and #3 in Post #11.

This is easily tested - by using a Voltmeter and turning the relevant switch ON and OFF.

(I suggest that "single conductor cable" may be better wording than "single sheath".)

It appears that the single (Black) conductor "Cable",
connected to the (Black) Neutral conductor of the the incoming Line, Neutral and Earth cable in Picture #2 of Post #1
goes to the "Loop" terminal of the bottom Switch in Pictures #2 and #3 of Post #11 - and does NOTHING!

To get your light fitting to work, you will need to
connect the single (Red) conductor "Cable" (at the ceiling) to the fitting's Line conductor,
connect the Neutral (Black) conductor of the incoming Line, Neutral an Earth cable to the fitting's Neutral conductor,
(disconnect the single (Black) conductor "Cable")
connect the Earth (Green/Yellow) conductor of the incoming Line, Neutral an Earth cable the fitting's Earth conductor
and
terminate/isolate the (apparently unused) Red conductor of the incoming Line, Neutral an Earth cable in a suitable "connector".

The single (Black) conductor "Cable" seems to go nowhere (except to a Loop terminal on the Switch) and does nothing !?!?!
One wonders, who wired this up in this manner - and why?


Good Luck!

I gather based on the original batten having the red conductor of the 3 core going into the loop diagonally opposite the earth it wasn’t providing power and just terminated in the loop

Based on that the power is coming via the single red conductor from the switch as this was the only red conductor in the batten active/neutral

In the diagonally opposite active/neutral original batten was the neutral from the 3 core and the single black conductor from the switch.

Based on that I believe the attached drawing is how this new fitting should be wired if someone can confirm please

 

[Gtp71]

I gather based on the original batten having the red conductor of the 3 core going into the loop diagonally opposite the earth it wasn’t providing power and just terminated in the loop

Based on that the power is coming via the single red conductor from the switch as this was the only red conductor in the batten active/neutral

In the diagonally opposite active/neutral original batten was the neutral from the 3 core and the single black conductor from the switch.

Based on that I believe the attached drawing is how this new fitting should be wired if someone can confirm please

Or should it be like this?