Clarity on 17th Edition

[Joe Malone]

Hi Everyone,

I wonder if you could help clarify the approach to meeting 17th Edition Regs? I've just had a substantial amount of electrical work carried out by a major contractor. Everything was done on electrical installation certificates and despite the fact that we had a schedule of rates which included minor works and EICR they have not done one single EICR or minor works.
My first issue is that I've no idea whether or not much of the work carried out actually needed doing and my second issue is that I understood that once you start working on an electrical installation then the whole system needs upgrading to 17th Edition. Is this incorrect and if not I'd be grateful for some clarity.
I also wondered when it was appropriate to use a minor works certificate in preference to an installation certificate?
Thanks in advance.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

There is no requirement to fully update/upgrade and existing installation to that of one which meets all the criteria of the 17th editions.
The work done and any circuits worked on from the point that it had been altered/extended, must comply to the 17th, except when replacing accessories, equipment and fittings.
Any part of the installation that does not comply to the 17th, would also be remarked upon on the certificate.

A EIC will cover any minor works that are carried but must be documented on the document.
A minor works certificate will only cover work that is deemed minor works, where as a EIC will cover both minor works and major works.
If you had working schedules that including EICR within the quote, you want to demand the EICR or a refund.
I personally do a full EICR prior to board changes and lesser inspections and tests for single circuits. It's not a must do, some do, some don't!

 

[Joe Malone]

I also wondered whether I should expect to get a cooker circuit installed as part of a specification for a new kitchen ring main or would this usually be something that is charged as an extra?

 

[stephenf8542]

Sorry Joe,a cooker circuit is a seperate circuit from your ring main

 

[MisterG]

I also wondered whether I should expect to get a cooker circuit installed as part of a specification for a new kitchen ring main or would this usually be something that is charged as an extra?

Hi

A cooker circuit would typically be a separate circuit, so unless you specifically asked for one, the cooker circuit would not be part of the quote.

Cheers

G

 

[Spark123]

If your main protective bonding (gas, water etc to the main earthing terminal) isn't up to scratch that will need to be done before any alterations can be carried out.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I also wondered whether I should expect to get a cooker circuit installed as part of a specification for a new kitchen ring main or would this usually be something that is charged as an extra?

Don't expect an extra circuit for the cooker, if it has not been specified.
The RFC(ring final circuit) for the kitchen is a different circuit.
Depending on the size and usage of your kitchen, the power circuits you should make provisions for are:
Cooker and hob, these can be served by the same circuit.(output power, cable sizing and protective device must be calculated)
Circuits for above work top appliances
Circuit for under worktop appliances.
I prefer to use radial circuits rather than RFC in the kitchen, you can have up to 32A on radial socket circuit.

 

[ericmark]

There are many ways to comply. With my parents I told the firm before they started on a kitchen conversion that the house really needed a rewire but my dad would not let us do it.

As a result they fitted a kitchen consumer unit and were able to comply except for one oversight with the non earthed lighting.

Regulations and standard practice are not the same. Although it is standard to fit FCU's for fridge, oven, washer etc. There is nothing to say you must. There are hobs that run on 13A and so one must really state what you want.

There is a common comment "We did exactly what they asked for but it was not what they wanted" applied to many jobs even non electric.

I would be given the job of writing the spec for a job. First line was unless written permission is given all work must comply with BS7671. Second line was "No item should be less safe than orignal installation." then I got to nitty gritty but those two lines covered so much.

Doing a job to a price often means working to minimum requirements. Even then things can go wrong. When my parents were having a wet room installed the electrician offered to fit new consumer unit instead of fitting a sub consumer unit for £100 extra. I could not say yes quick enough. However that resulted in the guy taking the money and running into the hills of Wales never to be seen again.

So if you get something dirt cheap expect on inspection to find dirt.

Where there is no barter you can hope there is some trust and professional workmanship. But once you start to barter and try to reduce price to bare bones don't be surprised when job follows bare bones also.

Clearly certificates should always be issued. But the say it was done before 2004 and I'll do it cheap is common. Clearly when the job is already 8 years old before it's completed you can't really expect anything else.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Where there is no barter you can hope there is some trust and professional workmanship. But once you start to barter and try to reduce price to bare bones don't be surprised when job follows bare bones also.

Also bear in mind that anybody who knows anything about project management knows that change control is where the profit comes from.