Combi boiler upgrade advice

[Dan Robinson]

Dan, you misunderstand. When I say viessmann use marketing I mean they lie too. You seem to be fixated on attacking me. I've got you down as the school bully when you were at school. Are you that really tall guy who thinks he the worlds best heating engineer?

Hmm - Atmos head honcho & lying in the same sentence... you obviously don't know them.

I am certainly not fixated on attacking you; only in making a point understood.

As for being very tall - yes I am. Do I think I am the best heating engineer in the world? Certainly not. I am all to aware of my technical shortcomings; and interested to know why you think, I think I am the best?

This in this particular matter though it seems I knew a tad more then you .

The key to this game is to not be blinkered. I have had a very mind opening day today playing with thermals stores opentherm bridges, wireless UFH controllers and lots of wireless room stats. Very rewarding. Wish people would read the fricking manual though. Including those who write it.


I see you still haven't looked at my little scenario. Are you telling me you have never installed a steamer in a block of flats that has nothing but cast waste?

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

Never. I live and work in an area that has mainly 3 bed houses and terraces and only a few modern flats. Most of the boilers I replace are already condensing boilers. An occasional low water content b oilers, and replacement combination boilers. I have a cast stack chain cutter I inherited when my father retired and I've used it twice due to the lack of cast stacks in my area. Occasionally see such stacks in London but try not to work there. However just finishing a job in Ealing, 1909 6 bed house. Left the Potterton mf in situ to serve the ground floor and fitted a 35kw Vitodens 200 with weather compensation to cover the four split levels. The stack is plastic, the drains are clay and my condense discharges internally into a waste running to a gully. I got this job as every on else quoted for pairs of boilers mostly pairs of 45kw Vaillants. The heat loss for the floors requiring additional heating is 33kw. The ground floor required 18kw including hot water and the mf is 18kw. In twenty years when the MF fails it can be replaced. I wonder if the new Viessmann will last as long as the mf? The customer had been told by almost every engineer that the Viessmann was to complicated for them to fit. I can't understand this general opinion as they are very straight forward. The weather compensation is a doddle to set up and works like a dream. The customer had researched boilers and concluded for her self that the Vitodens 200 is the rolls Royce of boilers available in the UK. This for me is a recurring theme. I never have to sell them I will simply say look on line and almost without fail get the order. people want quality oand are willing to pay for it. I don't sell boilers they sell themselves. I will installs the boiler selected.by my customer, they almost always select Viessmann. I hope this clears up a few points and would like to invite you to continue to converse with me in a constructive and friendly manner. I don't doubt I can learn a lot from you. I've only been doing this job for 20 years so have much to learn. I genuinely hope you have a fantastic Christmas. Andrew.

 

[picasso]

Sorry andrew but what a load of tosh, your customers being told by other engineers that viessmanns are too complicated to fit ?

viessmann is the rolls royce of boilers ?

your customers almost always select viessmann (with no imput from you )?

You come across as completly blinkered and unable to learn or change, I dont doubt that viessmann are a reasonable boiler but but I dont think they deserve the esteem you hold them in,

What would you do if you had to install a boiler in a house or flat with cast iron drainage ? walk away ?

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

I'm certainly able to raise temperatures on this forum. My opinion is my opinion. I don't attack yours. I am only telling it as it is. Do I need witnesses? One of the reasons.I've been pursuing this argument is to establish a view on connecting to cast stacks. I'm not persuaded. When I get such a job I will have to consider using an inferior boiler and set up so as to avoid condensing as much as possible I guess.

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

I'm certainly able to raise temperatures on this forum. My opinion is my opinion. I don't attack yours. I am only telling it as it is. Do I need witnesses? One of the reasons.I've been pursuing this argument is to establish a view on connecting to cast stacks. I'm not persuaded. When I get such a job I will have to consider using an inferior boiler and set up so as to avoid condensing as much as possible I guess.

 

[doitall]

Any heating engineer with half a brain connects it to the sink-basin-washing machines etc waste.

Not sure what the custard will say when you start ripping the boxing and tiles off, to check the soil pipe.

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

I'm certainly able to raise temperatures on this forum. My opinion is my opinion. I don't attack yours. I am only telling it as it is. Do I need witnesses? One of the reasons.I've been pursuing this argument is to establish a view on connecting to cast stacks. I'm not persuaded. When I get such a job I will have to consider using an inferior boiler and set up so as to avoid condensing as much as possible I guess. Blinkered, well I repair all makes of boiler and that's where I form my view. I find both the type of installer and boiler go together in general. Most nice jobs are done with viessmann or Vaillant. Bish bash bosh are fitted by the rougher element of our trade. The only boiler room with white shagpile carpet ive ever bden too was fitted with a viessmann. Repairs are quick and easy especially on the new 100. I prefer weather compensation on my systems and the Viessmann 200 in my opinion is the best for that. You may not share my view and that's ok by me I respect your view. Keep up the xmas spirit. I hope you have a great 2013. Andrew.

 

[gaswizzard]

to avoid condensing as much as possible I guess.

The Viessman will be the perfect choice with CO2 in the region of 7% , do these boilers actually condense?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Last Viessmann install I looked at was gash

Last Vaillant was so so.


Andrew, I still don't see why you argued the point at all? Especially once a technical bulletin was produced.

The caveat has always been to ensure there are discharges into the stack above the boiler.

Would love to hear your views on what are inferior boilers, and why they condense significantly less than a Viessmann?

It is not about raising temperatures. It is about keeping the information on the forum correct. As I said before, I care little of your opinion of me personally, as I am sure you care little about my personal feelings if any towards you.

But to claim you don't work in an area populated with cast Iron stacks, and to have such a view on them is baffling to say the least.

 

[doitall]

Actually talking of condensate.

I'm averaging 5Ltrs a day from my Intergas

 

[gaswizzard]

I'm certainly able to raise temperatures on this forum.

Can't say the same for viessmann with regard to water vapour dew-point temp versus CO2%.

 

[gaswizzard]

Actually talking of condensate.

I'm averaging 5Ltrs a day from my Intergas

1m3 of NG will produce around 1 litre of condensate , would say that intergas is using 'around' 4.8 m3 of gas (£2.50 a day).

 

[doitall]

Actually talking of condensate.

I'm averaging 5Ltrs a day from my Intergas

1m3 of NG will produce around 1 litre of condensate , would say that intergas is using 'around' 4.8 m3 of gas (£2.50 a day).

Near as you like spot on.

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

Are you talking about the 100 or 200?

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

It's not the boiler but the way it is controlled a Viessmann without weather compensation is no more efficient than most other boilers. Ok some boilers fitted on underfloor systems will perform extremely well. But most systems I'm doing are replacement boilers on rad systems. I'm sure you know this but the weather comp keeps the flow temp to the minimum holding the boiler in it's most efficient condition for the maximum time. With lengthened time at lower temp more condensing takes place and so more condense. I was very interested in what gas wizard was saying about volume of condense from 1m3 of gas. How much gas was recorded being burnt while producing your 5 litres? how did you measure gas used and liquid produced. What rating of boiler and type of system.
The argument about stacks will be proven in time. My caution may be incorrect but it hardly matters if I'm not working on these red mansions. Nitric acid desolves cast iron , fact. Where you chose the two to meet may reduce it's effect but it will not stop it. As for correct information on this forum, denigrating Viessmann boilers is Hardly objective.