combustible isolators and passive IP66 RCD sockets

[JohnW2]

A marketing e-mail from TLC made me think of two things this morning ...

Firstly, they are clearly pushing Wylex REC2S isolators (click here) , which I'm pretty sure are plastic (nowhere does documentation suggest otherwise). We've discussed this before, but did we conclude that they don't count as "similar [to CU] switchgear assemblies"?

Secondly, I was interested (and a little surprised) to see that they are promoting an IP66 passive RCD socket (click here) . As was recently discussed here, there are good arguments for favouring an active RCD in a number of situations, including ones in which electric garden tools are likely to be supplied by the socket. I think this is the first time I've seen a passive RCD socket (particularly a weatherproof one) and am struggling somewhat to think of why anyone would want one (rather than an active one). Any thoughts?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Firstly, they are clearly pushing Wylex REC2S isolators (click here) , which I'm pretty sure are plastic (nowhere does documentation suggest otherwise). We've discussed this before, but did we conclude that they don't count as "similar [to CU] switchgear assemblies"?

By definition, they are not "switchgear".

Secondly, I was interested (and a little surprised) to see that they are promoting an IP66 passive RCD socket (click here) . As was recently discussed here, there are good arguments for favouring an active RCD in a number of situations, including ones in which electric garden tools are likely to be supplied by the socket. I think this is the first time I've seen a passive RCD socket (particularly a weatherproof one) and am struggling somewhat to think of why anyone would want one (rather than an active one). Any thoughts?

I expect very, very few know anything about the difference or that it even exists.

 

[JohnW2]

By definition, they are not "switchgear".

I suppose that may be true in terms of the BS7671 definition - but I imagine that there are a lot of things that most people would definitely regard as switchgewar which would not satisfy that definition. What sort of things do you think the authors had in mind when they wrote "consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies"?

I expect very, very few know anything about the difference or that it even exists.

That's true, but TLC has gone out of its way to educated them - other than giving no indication as to when one or other type might be preferred (it is "up to the user to decide") ...

There are 2 types of RCD - Latching and Non-Latching;
also termed active and passive. Both types are accepted by
British Standards and it is up to the user to choose the type of RCD most suitable for their application.
NON-LATCHING (active) RCDs switch off when the power to them is turned off. Every time supply to the RCD is interrupted it will trip and will need to be reset.
LATCHING (passive) RCDs “remember” the state they were in prior to the power being switched off.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I suppose that may be true in terms of the BS7671 definition - but I imagine that there are a lot of things that most people would definitely regard as switchgewar which would not satisfy that definition. What sort of things do you think the authors had in mind when they wrote "consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies"?

Considering the definition in BS7671, of which they must have been aware, I would assume just that.
Anything else really does cast doubt on their competence.

There is actually no need for the word "assemblies" in their wording so who knows?

That's true, but TLC has gone out of its way to educated them - other than giving no indication as to when one or other type might be preferred (it is "up to the user to decide") ...

I would think that very few understand the explanation.

I cannot, after a quick think, think of a case where a passive RCD would be desirable or preferable for outside use.
A lot of appliances used indoors today are themselves "active" in that they do not "remember" their prior state after a power cut - just the dangerous ones like tools.

 

[JohnW2]

Considering the definition in BS7671, of which they must have been aware, I would assume just that. Anything else really does cast doubt on their competence.

Does not the existence and wording of the entire regulation already 'cast doubt on their 'competence'?

There is actually no need for the word "assemblies" in their wording so who knows?

Agreed - and, doubly so. Since their definition of 'switchgear' already included the word 'assembly' (for whatever reason) they certainly don't need to include the word again when then mention switchgear in a regulation?

I would think that very few understand the explanation.

That may be true of the general public, but I'm not so sure about the subset of the population who deal with TLC.

I cannot, after a quick think, think of a case where a passive RCD would be desirable or preferable for outside use.

Indeed - as I said, I was struggling to think of a reason.

A lot of appliances used indoors today are themselves "active" in that they do not "remember" their prior state after a power cut - just the dangerous ones like tools.

That's true of cookers etc., and an increasingly number of large kitchen/utility appliances (which is a pain at times, since it precludes the use of external time switches!), but it's not generally true of some of the most potentially 'immediately dangerous' things - like power tools, mixers, fan heaters, hair dryers etc.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

By definition, they are not "switchgear".

How so?

 

[EFLImpudence]

...because they do not fall under the definition in BS7671 of switchgear.

 

[JohnW2]

...because they do not fall under the definition in BS7671 of switchgear.

I think it's probably only really the "and" in "main and auxillary" which is the problem with the definition. If they intended "and/or", then it would probably cover more-or-less anything which included, say, switching and/or protective devices, wouldn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

...but they didn't so perhaps they didn't mean to cover more-or-less everything.

Why do you keep thinking up solutions to problems which don't exist?
Either we go on the evidence we have or we ignore everything.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

...because they do not fall under the definition in BS7671 of switchgear.

What makes you think that?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think it's probably only really the "and" in "main and auxillary" which is the problem with the definition. If they intended "and/or", then it would probably cover more-or-less anything which included, say, switching and/or protective devices, wouldn't it?

Nothing wrong with using 'and' in that way - it is perfectly grammatically correct.

 

[EFLImpudence]

What makes you think that?

Because an isolator is not "an assembly of main and auxiliary switching equipment ...".

 

[JohnW2]

...but they didn't so perhaps they didn't mean to cover more-or-less everything. Why do you keep thinking up solutions to problems which don't exist? Either we go on the evidence we have or we ignore everything.

I am simply trying to apply common sense. I don't think I could take seriously a definition which told me that, for example, things like this are not switchgear, could you? ...

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Well, it is a switch but is it 'a switchgear assembly'?
It's definitely not 'an assembly of main and auxiliary switching equipment'. They did not use 'or' instead of 'and'.

Is it similar to a consumer unit?

What does the suffix 'gear' mean? - I can't find anything.
There isn't much point applying common sense to determine what they meant when they wrote something else.




Anyway, it's alread metal, isn't it?

 

[333rocky333]

A lot of commercial kitchens and beer cellers use them ip sockets nowadays, so the passive are better for when there is acccidental power loss,