Conservatory. Is it subsidence?

[Katrina15]

I'm hoping someone with knowledge can give me advice. We moved into our current home 22 months ago. We were only able to view once due to covid - the first lockdown occured just after our first viewing. It was a dark wet evening in February so we couldn't inspect outside properly. We did have a survey but I don't recall any mention of the conservatory from the survey.

The next time we saw the house was 3 months later when we moved in. When we went inside the conservatory, we noticed a crack that had been covered in the plasterboard of the wall where the conservatory joins the house which hadn't been painted over. We have only recently come to decorate in the conservatory and we are in the process of having the roof insulated for better temperature regulation but I'm worried I'm wasting my money if there are problems with the structure.

I have mentioned these issues to the workmen but they don't seem concerned. One of them just said it is normal for there to be movement over time and he didn't take a proper look. The house was built 20 years ago. There were pictures of the conservatory on the previous listing when it was sold in 2010 so the conservatory is at the very least 12 years old.

I will upload some pictures showing the crack on the inside that was patched up (which I feel may have possibly worsened slightly - my partner says it hasn't).

The floor is also visibly lower than it once may have been, with a gap - this doesn't seem any worse than when we moved in.

There are also gaps on both sides where the conservatory meets the house - which I noticed when we moved in.

However I have also noticed cracks in the brickwork/mortar. I don't know if these were there before or not so I can't say whether they have worsened. There are cracks in the mortar along the same side as the internal crack in the plasterboard, however the worst is in the opposite side with a broken brick.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[noseall]

Looks like a typical connie to me, i.e. low end structure on crap foundations. All the money for these contracts goes to the UPVC guys. The budget for the bases is laughable and is the reason why
I call them glorified sheds.

 

[^woody^]

Looks like a typical connie to me, i.e. low end structure on crap foundations. All the money for these contracts goes to the UPVC guys. The budget for the bases is laughable and is the reason why
I call them glorified sheds.

LOL. Nice rant. Does help the OP though.

 

[^woody^]

Where is this in context? Which way is the the main house wall or sides of the conservatory?

 

[Katrina15]

Where is this in context? Which way is the the main house wall or sides of the conservatory?

View attachment 262928

I'd say i's about mid way. The house is to the right of the pic with the conservatory running lengthways down towards the left of the pic. The garden is on a bit of a slope.

Standing at the bottom of the garden looking at the conservatory, this is the right wall

 

[^woody^]

OK. Is there a similar crack in the same place on the opposite side, or is it cracked as in the first picture up against the house wall?

Anyway, probably does not matter as the cracking is indicative of foundation movement (subsidence) of the rear foundation of the rear elevation of the conservatory.

The issue for you is whether it's moving, or has just moved and now stopped. That will need monitoring over several seasons. But if you are altering the roof and putting extra load on the walls, then it may be best to hold on for a while until you know what the foundation is doing.

Causes could be the initial dig out and or/settlement, (basically poor quality foundation design or work), or a more recent change in the ground from a leaking drain or trees/large shrubs.

I don't think a structural engineer will/could tell you anything more than this, so if you don't want to wait, it may be one for the insurance. But if you do make a claim, be sure to insist that the crack has only just been noticed and was not there when you bought it - as pre-existing defects are not normally covered by insurance. And try and get it defined as something other than subsidence, as that tarnishes the property for a long time.

 

[Katrina15]

OK. Is there a similar crack in the same place on the opposite side, or is it cracked as in the first picture up against the house wall?

Anyway, probably does not matter as the cracking is indicative of foundation movement (subsidence) of the rear foundation of the rear elevation of the conservatory.

The issue for you is whether it's moving, or has just moved and now stopped. That will need monitoring over several seasons. But if you are altering the roof and putting extra load on the walls, then it may be best to hold on for a while until you know what the foundation is doing.

Causes could be the initial dig out and or/settlement, (basically poor quality foundation design or work), or a more recent change in the ground from a leaking drain or trees/large shrubs.

I don't think a structural engineer will/could tell you anything more than this, so if you don't want to wait, it may be one for the insurance. But if you do make a claim, be sure to insist that the crack has only just been noticed and was not there when you bought it - as pre-existing defects are not normally covered by insurance. And try and get it defined as something other than subsidence, as that tarnishes the property for a long time.

Kind of. It's more of a longer 'crack' in the masonry and around some bricks but not through any bricks themselves.

I'm really worried as work was started on my conservatory roof (now yesterday) for a 'new lightweight roof' so it can be used as an extra room now I have a baby. My friend had the same done and recommended it and the company to me, but it has turned out to infact be 'roof cladding'. When making enquiries, I asked if the plastic/glass roof gets removed - I was told yes. I was told that a new frame is built to support the new roof, but as they were working I kept having sneaky looks out of the window and saw that the insulation was put on top of the polycarbonate with timber attached to the existing roof structures, then a type of plastic that looks like tiles screwed to the timber. I went to ask them why the polycarbonate wasn't removed - they said it's only light and didn't need to be. But with seeing these cracks and gaps between the brickwork and PVC of the house and conservatory, and the more I google 'conservatory roof cladding', the more I feel worried out of my mind that the roof will be too heavy for the existing structure and I can't sleep. They're coming back to 'finish' it tomorrow and I feel like i'm completely wasting my money on it as I will now probably feel too scared to use it anyway!

 

[oldbutnotdead]

As above, the conservatory will have shallow or no foundations so will move a bit relative to the house. Without seeing exactly what the roof fitters are doing it's impossible to assess the job. A lot depends on whether there are any steel or ally verticals in the window and door frames.
At this stage about all you can do is take pictures of the build in progress and make sure you have full contact details for the company (bit late for due diligence but Companies House can be a handy tool).
The thing is unlikely to fall on your head, warning signs will be doors and windows sticking where they were free before- if that happens get them back sharpish.
With hindsight, a full rebuild would have been a better use of the cash.

 

[mrrusty]

It's a conservatory and is as @noseall describes. Yes it's moved. Yes, it might even move a bit more. No it won't fall down. Point up the cracks if you wish, run some sealant round any gaps inside, fill any internal cracks and get on with your life. I very much doubt you will have any luck with the insurance, and in any case you really don't want any formal label of "subsidence" anywhere near the property - it's almost certainly not "subsidence" in the normal sense - just carp foundations which probably didn't allow correctly for the sloping site. The only real remedy is to knock it down and start again, but IMHO you would be better off just doing cosmetics, living with it and spending any money on nice plants and landscaping in the garden - you'll definitely get more bang for the buck that way.

 

[^woody^]

it's almost certainly not "subsidence" in the normal sense

Foundation movement is subsidence. And it's a part of the house, so how can it not be normal subsidence?

If it's progressive, it's £20k work of subsidence damage to the insurance company, and shiit load of subsidence worry to anyone needing that conservatory to be rebuilt.

 

[^woody^]

Kind of. It's more of a longer 'crack' in the masonry and around some bricks but not through any bricks themselves.

I'm really worried as work was started on my conservatory roof (now yesterday) for a 'new lightweight roof' so it can be used as an extra room now I have a baby. My friend had the same done and recommended it and the company to me, but it has turned out to infact be 'roof cladding'. When making enquiries, I asked if the plastic/glass roof gets removed - I was told yes. I was told that a new frame is built to support the new roof, but as they were working I kept having sneaky looks out of the window and saw that the insulation was put on top of the polycarbonate with timber attached to the existing roof structures, then a type of plastic that looks like tiles screwed to the timber. I went to ask them why the polycarbonate wasn't removed - they said it's only light and didn't need to be. But with seeing these cracks and gaps between the brickwork and PVC of the house and conservatory, and the more I google 'conservatory roof cladding', the more I feel worried out of my mind that the roof will be too heavy for the existing structure and I can't sleep. They're coming back to 'finish' it tomorrow and I feel like i'm completely wasting my money on it as I will now probably feel too scared to use it anyway!

Let them complete the roof and don't worry about that now. It wont go anywhere fast. Decorate and fill the plaster internally if you like.

If you are not minded to involve insurers then just record the cracks now, then again after a few weeks of warm spring weather, then mid summer and then December time. See if they change. If the cracks change, its moving and you really need to have it sorted out.

BTW, when anyone works on your house, you really should know what they are doing and what you are paying for. Either specify the work before hand or get the work itemised and costed properly.

 

[mrrusty]

so how can it not be normal subsidence?

I mean, that conservatories are often built without building regs and foundations are often not great. I would think long and hard about tagging a property as having "subsidence" on the back of a bit of movement in a conservatory. If you make a subsidence claim, you'll always have to declare it on subsequent insurance renewals.

 

[^woody^]

I mean, that conservatories are often built without building regs and foundations are often not great. I would think long and hard about tagging a property as having "subsidence" on the back of a bit of movement in a conservatory. If you make a subsidence claim, you'll always have to declare it on subsequent insurance renewals.

Conservatories are a part of the house, a part of the use of the house and a big part of subsidence claims. It's no different to a subsidence claim to an extension or the main house.

It's a costly repair, and I can't see why someone would want to spend say £10-20k on a repair themselves if they have insurance, and I would not put anyone off claiming - as any rise in premiums is less than the cost of self-financing.

anyway .....

And try and get it defined as something other than subsidence, as that tarnishes the property for a long time.

 

[mrrusty]

and I would not put anyone off claiming

I would. The insurance companies have several "get outs" - poor workmanship, settlement (not subsidence), and so if you claim and have it rejected you still have to answer "yes" on any insurance quotation request regarding subsidence claim questions; you could end up with no payout and increased insurance risk/price. Not saying it would never be worth it, just saying think long and hard before raising a subsidence issue because it may come back to bite. e.g. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...Why-tell-insurer-subsidence-10-years-ago.html

 

[Katrina15]

I would. The insurance companies have several "get outs" - poor workmanship, settlement (not subsidence), and so if you claim and have it rejected you still have to answer "yes" on any insurance quotation request regarding subsidence claim questions; you could end up with no payout and increased insurance risk/price. Not saying it would never be worth it, just saying think long and hard before raising a subsidence issue because it may come back to bite

Yeah I was looking through my policy yesterday and it mentions that it's the 'main dwelling' that is covered and not outbuildings and i'm not 100% certain what the conservatory comes under.

It also says that settlement isn't covered, and also it's not covered if any maintainence/repairs have been repaired and there's been poor workmanship.

It also says subsidence isn't covered unless the 'main dwelling' is affected at the same time.