Contactum CU

[LesleyB]

Hello

Thought I'd post some questions to this board.

Had a Contactum 6-way CU fitted in June.

Found out the cooker was operating on a 16 Amp MCB and the warm air fan is on a 32 Amp MCB which is the wrong way round.

Cooker tails are too short to allow me to swap the lives round on the CU so I have rung the people who installed it to come round and do the change over for me. Naturally the cooker MCB is at the end and can be slipped off easily but the nearest 32 Amp MCB is 2more MCB's away and the cooker tails just won't reach.

I did power down at the meter before I took the cover off the Contactum.

I hired these people on trust they would do the work properly. I paid £250 to have the new unit fitted and they have misrated the fan for the warm air central heating system to a 32 amp MCB. Not only that they only marked up the shower (40 amp) and lights (6 amp) correctly. They also opened a seal on the power supply meter to switch off the power to the flat but they didn't reseal it. This is how I was able to undo that cover and isolate the CU. While it's useful they left that cover on the meter unsealed, is that correct procedure?

They are coming round on Tuesday but all should be safe because, as my storage heater seems to have stopped charging, I won't be running the warm air circulation system. I can't recall correctly whether I've had it on since June so I don't know whether it's something they've done or not but I will get them to investigate it when they come round.

I have had previous experience within an Electrical Engineering Dept of a University so I am not entirely clueless when it comes to electrics but I did pay these people to do the job properly. As a non-professional in domestic electrics, I risk buggering something up and leaving myself without power.

Trouble is, I'm not all that confident in being able to know whether they are doing things safely and appropriately.

I've observed a green and red striped cable in the CU near the earth bay but not attached to earth or anything. I don't know if this relates to the problem with the storage heater. I have no clue if this cable was connected up to anything on the old CU.

How do I find where that cable runs to before connecting it back up again?

Excellent site BTW Glad to have found it

Regards

L.

 

[andy]

Found out the cooker was operating on a 16 Amp MCB and the warm air fan is on a 32 Amp MCB which is the wrong way round.

Cooker tails are too short to allow me to swap the lives round on the CU so I have rung the people who installed it to come round and do the change over for me. Naturally the cooker MCB is at the end and can be slipped off easily but the nearest 32 Amp MCB is 2more MCB's away and the cooker tails just won't reach.

you could swap the breakers - therefore no short cables. only thing being they should be in order of highest to lowest

I did power down at the meter before I took the cover off the Contactum.

I hired these people on trust they would do the work properly. I paid £250 to have the new unit fitted and they have misrated the fan for the warm air central heating system to a 32 amp MCB. Not only that they only marked up the shower (40 amp) and lights (6 amp) correctly. They also opened a seal on the power supply meter to switch off the power to the flat but they didn't reseal it. This is how I was able to undo that cover and isolate the CU. While it's useful they left that cover on the meter unsealed, is that correct procedure?

they didnt seal the meter/service head because they cant. thats for the DNO. the correct procedure is to get the DNO to fit an isolator between meter and CU, altho in reality many people just break the seals. also, turning off the main switch on the CU is usually safe and there is rarely exposed live cables if this is done. and even less chance in newer CU's

They are coming round on Tuesday but all should be safe because, as my storage heater seems to have stopped charging, I won't be running the warm air circulation system. I can't recall correctly whether I've had it on since June so I don't know whether it's something they've done or not but I will get them to investigate it when they come round.

theyll charge for that. you did say you had some experiance - you should get a multimeter and fault find youself. could be easier

I have had previous experience within an Electrical Engineering Dept of a University so I am not entirely clueless when it comes to electrics but I did pay these people to do the job properly. As a non-professional in domestic electrics, I risk b*****r something up and leaving myself without power.

at least you relise when to stop, unlike some DIYers...

Trouble is, I'm not all that confident in being able to know whether they are doing things safely and appropriately.

there is the issue of Part P. CU changes come under this so you should have a Part P certificate. if it is done wrong then you could complain that they have done work against the law

I've observed a green and red striped cable in the CU near the earth bay but not attached to earth or anything. I don't know if this relates to the problem with the storage heater. I have no clue if this cable was connected up to anything on the old CU.

How do I find where that cable runs to before connecting it back up again?

green and red? can you explain this more clearly? a pic would be useful too

 

[plugwash]

they didnt seal the meter/service head because they cant. thats for the DNO. the correct procedure is to get the DNO to fit an isolator between meter and CU, altho in reality many people just break the seals. also, turning off the main switch on the CU is usually safe and there is rarely exposed live cables if this is done. and even less chance in newer CU's

i know several sparkies who have managed to get hold of meter seals and the sealing tools

 

[andy]

they didnt seal the meter/service head because they cant. thats for the DNO. the correct procedure is to get the DNO to fit an isolator between meter and CU, altho in reality many people just break the seals. also, turning off the main switch on the CU is usually safe and there is rarely exposed live cables if this is done. and even less chance in newer CU's

i know several sparkies who have managed to get hold of meter seals and the sealing tools

i wouldnt mind 1...

 

[Steve]

LesleyB, your electrician sounds like the one who did my CU change! See thread entitled electricians advice.

 

[LesleyB]

Found out the cooker was operating on a 16 Amp MCB and the warm air fan is on a 32 Amp MCB which is the wrong way round.

Cooker tails are too short to allow me to swap the lives round on the CU so I have rung the people who installed it to come round and do the change over for me. Naturally the cooker MCB is at the end and can be slipped off easily but the nearest 32 Amp MCB is 2more MCB's away and the cooker tails just won't reach.

you could swap the breakers - therefore no short cables. only thing being they should be in order of highest to lowest

Thanks for the informative reply

I tried to do this. All the MCB's are mounted on an H-rail. The lives appear to come in thru the top of each MCB and the earths and neutrals go off to two bays at the top of the CU. There's a toothed(?) copper busbar at the bottom of the MCB's with one tooth into each of the MCB's and one into the isolator on the CU. I started by unscrewing the top and bottom screws of the 16 A MCB cos that's at the end of the H-rail but I couldn't figure out how to get the copper bus bar out the way so I could slide the MCB off.

I then also realised that I don't know if I have to change the earths and neutrals around to match the MCB's in anyway so rather than muck it up completely and blow everything up or risk an earthing fault I decided to leave it and ring up the bods that did the install.

I did power down at the meter before I took the cover off the Contactum.

I hired these people on trust they would do the work properly. I paid £250 to have the new unit fitted and they have misrated the fan for the warm air central heating system to a 32 amp MCB. Not only that they only marked up the shower (40 amp) and lights (6 amp) correctly. They also opened a seal on the power supply meter to switch off the power to the flat but they didn't reseal it. This is how I was able to undo that cover and isolate the CU. While it's useful they left that cover on the meter unsealed, is that correct procedure?

they didnt seal the meter/service head because they cant. thats for the DNO. the correct procedure is to get the DNO to fit an isolator between meter and CU, altho in reality many people just break the seals. also, turning off the main switch on the CU is usually safe and there is rarely exposed live cables if this is done. and even less chance in newer CU's

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. Not sure what you mean by DNO but that's obviously a.n.other person/unit. Like I said I have no domestic electricals experience or education.

The meter cover does have a notice on it saying this part to only be touched by qualified personnel and all that's behind it is a big red on/off switch. It's the only way to isolate the CU from the power supply. There are still two seals left intact on the meter.

For safety's sake I checked the p.d. between the copper bus bar and the earth and found circa 0.7 V AC with isolator opened so decided I would isolate CU completely before proceeding.

They are coming round on Tuesday but all should be safe because, as my storage heater seems to have stopped charging, I won't be running the warm air circulation system. I can't recall correctly whether I've had it on since June so I don't know whether it's something they've done or not but I will get them to investigate it when they come round.

theyll charge for that. you did say you had some experiance - you should get a multimeter and fault find youself. could be easier

Have a decent multimeter, and an old Avo

Where my lack of knowledge comes in again is that the storage heater runs off Economy 7 and is wired into a separate 2-way CU. It won't power up during daylight hours and I have no clue on how to circumvent this or if it can be cirumvented. Therefore no way to test whether all is safe or indeed even working during daylight hours. Can anyone advise on that?

I have had previous experience within an Electrical Engineering Dept of a University so I am not entirely clueless when it comes to electrics but I did pay these people to do the job properly. As a non-professional in domestic electrics, I risk b*****r something up and leaving myself without power.

at least you relise when to stop, unlike some DIYers...

Yes, I'm sure there's some people who think they know an awful lot when in fact they don't. Here's an example of it: So far this electrical escapade has cost me a new CU and cooker. The old cooker was, unknown to me, dangerous and I subsequently discovered the old 5-way CU had the warm air circuit and the cooker circuit running from the same fuse which ermm well let's say didn't have fuse wire in it. I suspect they decided that 30 amp wasn't good enough because they had doubled up on one fuse holder. Whoever 'they' were. I suspect it was done about the time a shower unit was installed. I feel very lucky there wasn't a fire and the non-fuse wire burnt out before I touched the old cooker etc. Current CU is 6-way Contactum CU with Isolator.

Trouble is, I'm not all that confident in being able to know whether they are doing things safely and appropriately.

there is the issue of Part P. CU changes come under this so you should have a Part P certificate. if it is done wrong then you could complain that they have done work against the law

When I contracted them for the job I stated I wanted it certificated but they didn't leave a certificate.

I've observed a green and red striped cable in the CU near the earth bay but not attached to earth or anything. I don't know if this relates to the problem with the storage heater. I have no clue if this cable was connected up to anything on the old CU.

How do I find where that cable runs to before connecting it back up again?

green and red? can you explain this more clearly? a pic would be useful too

Well, the insulation colour is green and red striped. Similar idea to auto electrics where they combine colours in the insulation to identify which wire goes/comes from where. It's quite thin, no heavy current capability.

I've hestitated to strip down that CU to discover anymore about it and I've put the cover back on to have power supply back up again. I will get pictures of the setup over the weekend but it's coming in dark up here now and I'd rather not survive on torches while trying to take a picture of the CU with cover off.

Sorry if I seem ultra cautious but I once heard this phrase about chemists : there's a lot of bold chemists, there's a lot of old chemists, there are very few old, bold chemists. I'm sure similar applies to electricians.

I would like to get a bit older

I'll isolate and take off the CU cover tomorrow and find a place to plop the piccies then post back to let you know.

Thanks again for the reply.

 

[andy]

the green and red cable sounds unusual... whats the CSA of it and is has it got loads of thin strnds (flexable) or 1 (/7)

 

[ebee]

No cert no pay it`s as simple as that. It`s a contract.
Hope you not paid already.
If what you state is true then I have no faith in their abillity

 

[LesleyB]

LesleyB, your electrician sounds like the one who did my CU change! See thread entitled electricians advice.

I saw that thread. No disrespect intended, while there may be faults with my install it's better than yours mate

To be honest I reckoned once I saw the he's coming round after 5pm on Friday that he was doing a 'homer' i.e. private work. Unless it's an emergency I have never met a tradesperson(?) (i.e. plumber sparky corgi w.h.y.) who'll work so late on a Friday because most start so very early in the day.

I though these guys were NIC'd so they should have been able to issue a Part P if it had been up to the job.

Sorry to relate that I once let out a flat I owned because I was working away, got a Corgi engineer in to check the gas as required by law. He signed it all off but had caused a gas leak himself. Unsurprisingly he'd gone out of business by the time this was discovered but I then got recommended another Corgi engineer who was older, stricter but didn't charge through the roof for the basic installation and would tell me what needed doing.

After that experience I am a bit wary of the certification process. Your guy presumably Part P'd your install which, from what I have read, really didn't deserve it and has left you in the same state I was left in with gas.

This kind of behaviour puts a mockery on the whole qualification process and it's sometimes not until someone gets hurt that these things get found out.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

the green and red cable sounds unusual... whats the CSA of it and is has it got loads of thin strnds (flexable) or 1 (/7)

It's a single strander but I don't know what CSA it is. No obvious markings on it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No cert no pay it`s as simple as that. It`s a contract.
Hope you not paid already.
If what you state is true then I have no faith in their abillity

They said they were sure the cooker wire wouldn't pass a Megger.

I understand where you are coming from re the no cert no pay but I have already paid for this job as it was done in June.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

the green and red cable sounds unusual... whats the CSA of it and is has it got loads of thin strnds (flexable) or 1 (/7)

It's a single strander but I don't know what CSA it is. No obvious markings on it.

I've put the CU back together for the evening. The unconnected cable is inside the CU and I'm not brave enough to take the cover off while either leaving myself in the dark or leaving the CU live.

I'll measure cable dimensions in the am.
____________________________________

moderator

please note 10a

 

[ebee]

No cert no pay it`s as simple as that. It`s a contract.
Hope you not paid already.
If what you state is true then I have no faith in their abillity

They said they were sure the cooker wire wouldn't pass a Megger.

I understand where you are coming from re the no cert no pay but I have already paid for this job as it was done in June.

You said when you contracted them and stated you wanted cert so
Regardless of everything else,
no cert,
contract not fulfilled,
so no payment until contract fulfilled,
no problem however long ago they did it it`s not complete so no pay.
It`s unfortunate you now paid them but at least it does give some leverage against payment for second visit though,
use it dear, stick to your guns.
My it`s sometimetimes dificult for decent contractors to get paid decently from clients.
Do not put up with brow beating or waffle and get in contact with local authority building control.
Hope i`ve been a little help tp you

 

[baldelectrician]

The first mistake (in my opinion) was having a contactum consumer unit fitted. What a pile of tat

I prefer MK - 10 year manufacturer's guarantee and never a problem.


you can also get spares off the shelf no problem.


i am surprised at your findings as a consumer unit change is (usually) a dream job for a spark. (sitting down, comfy plodding away) instead of up a set of ladders etc

Disappointed in poor labelling I usually have a dymo machine for the labels

He must have been in a rush.

 

[LesleyB]

Right I have managed to get a picture up on image shack





If you take a look at that you'll notice the 2nd wire in from the left on the earthing bay is not connected and the MCB's are in the order 16-6-20-32-32-40

The cooker is running off the 16 A MCB and it should be running off a 30 Amp. One of the 30 A MCB's is the heater fan circuit.

Not being a sparky myself, I haven't a clue what constitutes a good make or a bad make of CU. Obviously availability of parts is an issue for people in the trade and the end customer should they wish to change things around in the future. One of the reasons they used a Contactum was that the new unit needed to fit where the old unit was because I didn't want to disturb that. I've just seen a neighbours Consumer Unit which has a 2-way + isolator and a 7 way + isolator in one box. When I come to have the place rewired I will have something similar fitted.

Now I had this fitted in June this year at a cost of £250 and despite asking for certification it wasn't tested. They didn't even go round and check what was what when they marked everything up otherwise they would have found the error re the heating circuit.

I have got my suspicions about the crew that fitted it. When I rang up to have them come and change the MCB's for the central heating fan and the cooker over, the landline number on the invoice wasn't working so I checked in the book and there was a different landline number there which I have noted on the invoice. I left a message on that but they didn't return my call so I rang the mobile.

I said my name and that I had had a consumer unit fitted by them in June this year. His first words were that they had moved office and the paperwork was all out of order so could he have the address.

Now it's all entirely feasible and there may be valid reasons for moving offic, but I am suspcious about that.

Anyway, that loose wire is a single strand similar to that found in twin core plus earth for lighting circuits and the like.

If you zoom in on the picture the 3rd connector in from the left on the earthing bay has a similar wire connected up.

Thanks for your time on this

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Having looked at that picture a bit closer I have eight neutrals connected up
to individual bays on the right hand side.

I then have actually got 9 'putative' earth wires.

This counting excludes what I hope are the earth and neutral supplied by the electricity company.

One of the putative earth wires might be meant to be a live going off the fact it's solid red which would account for the 'extra' unconnected earth wire.

I'm beginning to wonder, if they can leave a job like that, what entirely is safe around here and whether it's worth having them come round to swap the MCB's over.. I've not noticed anything not working and I've not noticed anything I normally touch being live.

Ho hum.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I've now sent emails to the Chief Building Control Officer and Elecsa of which the company concerned claim to be a member.

____________________________________

Moderator

please note 10a

 

[ebee]

I've now sent emails to the Chief Building Control Officer and Elecsa of which the company concerned claim to be a member.

you can check then on Elecsa website on www.elecsa.org.uk
and search for them via postcode or name

 

[LesleyB]

ebee

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't spotted that on their website.

My reasons for emailing the link to certified people such as the Buildings Control Officer and Elecsa today is that the company is coming round first thing Tuesday am to change the MCB's around and I think an email dated today to both these parties shows the state of the installation as it is today.

I can confirm they are a member of the Elecsa scheme and that their assessment date was in March of this year. They appear to have been assessed for a Scheme A ('Full Scope' Scheme), whatever that means?
Interestingly the phone number given on the Elecsa site is slightly different to that on the invoice by the inclusion of one extra digit.

I *hate* being put in the situation where it is necessary to go to professional bodies about their members. It's horrible if someone compalins about work, even if it is entirely justifiable. Now, if I hire anyone, I'll want to see more than Elecsa membership.

Luckily I have the invoice and receipt for payment so I will photocopy those in case the company wants/needs a copy for their records.

I've pointed out the number of earths v. the number of neutrals and the incorrect rating on the central heating fan and cooker to both parties emailed today.

Well, I've put the cat amongst the pigeons on this one and I hope they put the job right.

The only thing I can think of that is not in use at this time and is of low current requirement is the doorbell.

I don't have one fitted but there is a doorbell unit still in place in the flat.

Given I have changed light bulbs and replaced the switches in the hall I hope I would have found a live circuit by now.

Regards

Lesley

 

[ebee]

Elecsa do insist that all work is certified (I am in ELECSA too) and also insist the job is done properly.
So good luck