converting a spur to ringmain socket in kitchen/utility room

[scousespark]

The point I was making Plug was that the stats would indicate that most of us are working to a safe standard. If most of us were of the 'connect up switch on and walk away' mentality the instances of dangerous installations would be much higher.

 

[pbar]

We determine that we are capable, if we know what we are doing and are certain it is right. I am capable fitting a spur, replacing a socket, replacing an MCB, etc.

EEBADS? Will the circuit disconnect in the required time (0.4s / 5s)? How would you check?
That's part of the course of determining if it's safe or not, not by plugging in a table lamp.

I wouldn't check. I would take great care to connect everything up properly using common sense and making sure the work I was doing was within my knowledge and experience. I would make sure everything works, that I am happy, and job done.
Connect it, it works, walk away. Just like every electrician I've ever met.

 

[pbar]

How can you be 'certain you are right'. I do this job every day and only know it is right after I've tested and confirmed results are acceptable.

So...is what you're saying that no one should ever (for example) even be allowed to fit a plug because of the lack of test equipment.

When I fit a plug I test it by plugging the appliance in. It works, so success. Of course I ensure proper connections are made, cable grip is attached properly, no bare wires, etc.
As I've said, common sense.
It's the same common sense I use when I change a tap washer, lay some concrete, fit some skirting boards, mow the lawn (oh, my wife does that, never mind), plaster repair, fit guttering or do any other number of DIY tasks around the home.

 

[pbar]

Then again you keep telling us that you always have to check their work and make it better.

No, I don't believe I said always.
But for an example of this, see another recent post of mine. Where an electrician cut a cable too short to reach the socket (during an extension build), taped it to another cable and shoved it behind plasterboard so it would be unnoticed.
Yes, I checked that, saw what he'd done and bettered it by replacing the whole cable.
Just one example.

 

[GaryMo]

I wouldn't check. I would take great care to connect everything up properly using common sense and making sure the work I was doing was within my knowledge and experience. I would make sure everything works, that I am happy, and job done.
Connect it, it works, walk away. Just like every electrician I've ever met.

So, you'll walk away uncertain then? Even though the circuit could have had problems before you touched it? Blinkers are a wonderful thing.
As long as the table lamp lights up eh

 

[pbar]

I wouldn't check. I would take great care to connect everything up properly using common sense and making sure the work I was doing was within my knowledge and experience. I would make sure everything works, that I am happy, and job done.
Connect it, it works, walk away. Just like every electrician I've ever met.

So, you'll walk away uncertain then? Even though the circuit could have had problems before you touched it? Blinkers are a wonderful thing.
As long as the table lamp lights up eh

Yes, just like almost every other DIYer, and every electrician I've ever met. Although if the circuit had a problem as you mention, that's different, it would have to be fixed and depending on what the issue was, tested by someone properly qualified to do so.
There are different levels of course. From wiring a plug right up to a full re-wire/CU change/fault find, etc. Not everything requires the same levels of testing.
Would I fit a plug without testing (aside from plug it in, see if it works) then yes I would.
Would I fit a spur off a socket with an FCU without testing (other than see if all works) yes I would.
Would I install a ring or fit a new CU without testing, no I wouldn't. I would either have it properly tested or have someone else do the work and properly test it. And I'd search long and hard (I'd have to from past experiences with electrcians) to find the right person.

 

[scousespark]

Pbar,

I am not disagreeing that some people don't do the job properly. From your posts you've been unlucky. But, think of how many electricians you have seen working. The chances are, you've not met that many.

As for the levels of testing, there are a list of tests an electrician should follow. The number of tests will depend on what you are doing, but the results will still need to be acceptable. When you add a spur, the ONLY way you can know it is safe is by testing it using equipment which is known to be accurate. Checking all the screws are tight and the cables look neat does not prove it is okay.

I get a feeling that no matter what we say, you have an opinion that we are all sharks who want to fleece every penny from Joe Public, and do shoddy work. In reality, most of us are honest and do our best to ensure that the work we do satisfies our customers (and is safe).

 

[pbar]

Pbar,

I am not disagreeing that some people don't do the job properly. From your posts you've been unlucky. But, think of how many electricians you have seen working. The chances are, you've not met that many.

As for the levels of testing, there are a list of tests an electrician should follow. The number of tests will depend on what you are doing, but the results will still need to be acceptable. When you add a spur, the ONLY way you can know it is safe is by testing it using equipment which is known to be accurate. Checking all the screws are tight and the cables look neat does not prove it is okay.

I get a feeling that no matter what we say, you have an opinion that we are all sharks who want to fleece every penny from Joe Public, and do shoddy work. In reality, most of us are honest and do our best to ensure that the work we do satisfies our customers (and is safe).

Hi again.
Yes, you're right I haven't come across a lot of electricians, I would guess at around 4 or 5. And as I've said none did any tests after the work was done apart from checking everything worked, so, to me, that's the norm.
And no, I don't feel you're all sharks, really. I have no doubt most of the electricians on here do a fine job, the necessary tests and all, your good self included.
However, I do feel that most electricians are of the job done, check it works, take money and go brigade. Which is why I do as much as I can myself (as long as I am confident in myself that I can do it and it's safe as far as I know), as I'm no worse off, in fact better off as I take greater care (as it's my house) and time as those guys do.
On another note I've just had an electrician leave a few minutes ago, as I need my extension electrics Part P certifiying for building control. He checked several things visually and decided he is willing to Part P it for us (even though he didn't install it) and he'll be back in a week or so to do the proper checks, tests, and so on. He seemed very competent so am quite pleased and hopeful that at last I've found someone....like yourself. I hope I can keep that opinion when he's done.
The new electrics consist of 8 double sockets on their own RCBO, and 2 new light circuits connected to existing MCB's. He reckons a mornings work and a cost of around £220 assuming nothing will need doing.
Hope that sounds about right. It's been a struggle getting someone in to do this so I'm very pleased to be getting somewhere at last.