Crabtree Starbreaker CU

[dormermike]

Hi

I have a Crabtree "Starbreaker" consumer unit, installed around 1994 as far as I can tell (been in house since last year).

Actually I have two - one for lighting and one for sockets.

Both units are full and contain only MCBs except for the sockets one which has a RCBO for the garage supply. This RCBO is twice the width of the MCBs.

I am wondering if the MCB's can be replaced with "slim" RCBO's so that circuits could be RCD protected - eg, the electric shower for starters.

I wouldn't be doing this myself - but helpful to know if i'd need new consumer units or if the current ones (which are full btw) can be upgraded to take slim RCBO's like this one:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CB61slashB13230.html?source=froogle

I was told by a electrician last year that the consumer units needed to be upgraded - but i notice today that the "starbreaker" line are still for sale, and it looks like RCBO's are available.

Thanks
Mike

 

[JACKC]

RCBO's are available for this consumer unit.

 

[dormermike]

Oh cool, thanks for the info.

Just wondering - is changing a MCB to a RCBO inside a consumer unit a notifiable task?

My shower currently has no RCD protection - and needs replacement anyway. It has a 6mm CSA cable and i'd be replacing like for like.. but the idea of a electric shower and no RCD doesn't sit well with me tbh.

Also, in theory, as my second bathroom is also not RCD'd, I could RCBO the lighting circuit in there too...

 

[EFLImpudence]

Just wondering - is changing a MCB to a RCBO inside a consumer unit a notifiable task?

Yes, but you did say an electrician would be doing it.

My shower currently has no RCD protection - and needs replacement anyway. It has a 6mm CSA cable and i'd be replacing like for like.. but the idea of a electric shower and no RCD doesn't sit well with me tbh.Also, in theory, as my second bathroom is also not RCD'd, I could RCBO the lighting circuit in there too...

Shower yes, but sockets would be more important than the lights.

 

[dormermike]

Just wondering - is changing a MCB to a RCBO inside a consumer unit a notifiable task?

Yes, but you did say an electrician would be doing it.

Indeed. Not all sparks are part p though are they.

My shower currently has no RCD protection - and needs replacement anyway. It has a 6mm CSA cable and i'd be replacing like for like.. but the idea of a electric shower and no RCD doesn't sit well with me tbh.Also, in theory, as my second bathroom is also not RCD'd, I could RCBO the lighting circuit in there too...

Shower yes, but sockets would be more important than the lights.

Thanks. No sockets in my bathroom anyway.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Indeed. Not all sparks are part p though are they.

No, that's true.

But if you employ one who isn't you would still have to pay LABC fees.
If you can show the LABC you know what you are doing they may agree to you doing it yourself.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Thanks. No sockets in my bathroom anyway.

No. I meant all sockets especially ones used for outdoor tools - more beneficial than bathroom lights.

 

[JohnD]

Crabtree Starbreaker is a range that has been going a long time. MCBs and RCBO's for the current series do not fit the older ones. The current ones have an unusual busbar behind with slots that a tongue on the MCB stabs into. The older ones have a more normal comb busbar where each MCB has a visible screw at the bottom that clamps onto a prong of the busbar. If your existing RCBO is double width it sounds to me like it is from an older range.

The link you posted shows a late model RCBO with the tongue poking out of the back. IIRC the RCBOs for the older version were twice the width.

You can also tell from the part no's on the devices.

Some photos would help.

this is a photo of a fairly recent one View media item 1092 you can make out the slots, and the absence of screws at the base of the MCBs.

In this photo of an older MCB you may just be able to make out the screw at the bottom (I did not open the wrapper) and the absence of a tongue. View media item 5162
this newer one has a tongue but no screw (click it to enlarge) View media item 5161

 

[dormermike]

Johnd thanks ... I think i have the older one which uses the fatter rcbo's.. i have one rcbo in situ and its a fat one, serving garage feed.

I guess i was wondering if slim rcbo were available as a straight swap but doesnt sound like.

Here are some pics of the two units

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• dormermike
• 4 Aug 2011
• 1

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• dormermike
• 4 Aug 2011
• 1

 

[JohnD]

look for the part no's on the MCBs. I can't remember the coding now but it might be something like B12/345

I only have odd Crabtree stuff left on the garage shelf now, and threw my catalogue away.

 

[dormermike]

Rcbo is b40... Is this gear really that obsolete now?

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• dormermike
• 4 Aug 2011
• 1

 

[JohnD]

B40 is the rating, not the part no. I thought it was printed on the front. You might need to turn off the power and remove the face cover if you are competent to do it safely. Note that the Supply terminals and their screws on the main switch are live even when turned off.

Obsolete parts are still available, both new and used, but you are beginning to sound like you are thinking of DIYing it.

There are advantages in starting again with a good big new one, but this is a pro job as safety needs to be upgraded and tested.

 

[dormermike]

B40 is the rating, not the part no. I thought it was printed on the front. You might need to turn off the power and remove the face cover if you are competent to do it safely. Note that the Supply terminals and their screws on the main switch are live even when turned off.

Obsolete parts are still available, both new and used, but you are beginning to sound like you are thinking of DIYing it.

There are advantages in starting again with a good big new one, but this is a pro job as safety needs to be upgraded and tested.

DIYing what, replacement of the mcb with a rcbo? Is that really notifiable? Tbh no i wouldnt do it. I consider myself competent but not wanting to touch consumer unit etc. I just prefer to know my options before i get anyone in. I had a spark last year tell me i needed new units if i wanted to go rcd route. If i can protect certain circuits that would be sufficient for me.

Ps i wouldnt even remove cover to check part number lol

 

[flameport]

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• dormermike
• 4 Aug 2011
• 1

That looks like the old SB6000 series, which has a screw fixing onto the busbar.
There is also another 'old' Starbreaker series, which looks similar, also screw fixing.

The difference is that one has the busbar fixing screw central to the MCB (like most others) and one has the screw offset to the left, meaning nothing else will fit in there. The centre fix will take the older Wylex MCBs (although they are also obsolete now).

Locating an RCBO for either type will be pretty much impossible.