Day rate advice

[Yanni]

I have been speaking to a nice young electrician and he is happy to do a day rate with him and his apprentice for £400.
But I feel it is a bit steep as my previous electrician charges me £200 per day.
The new one is him and his very young apprentice, shouldn't the day rate of the young apprentice be less than what a full electrician charges.

Also to mention my previous electrician sub-contracts the one he usually sends me so he also makes a profit on the £200 a day rate.
I just cant get hold of my old one as he is far too busy.

What do you think?

 

[Risteard]

£200 is not realistic for a day rate in this day and age.

 

[HERTS P&D]

This is a DIY site not 'have a go at a tradesman's day rate', especially from a landlord having work done!

Andy

 

[Yanni]

This is not a landlord query, it is a commercial site enquiry and I am not having a go at anyone, I am posting a thread opening a conversation with electricians.

 

[securespark]

OK.

Let's get down to the nitty gritty.

How much are you prepared to pay an electrician for a day?

 

[Yanni]

The average day rate is around £230 a day and happy to pay that. My issue is should a 17 year old apprentice be expected to pay the same. That’s the point I was making.

 

[securespark]

IHNI what current rates are.

However, think about the apprentice. The electrician could be paying towards their theory training, will have to provide tools, equipment and insurances for them. And last but not least will be paying them a wage and paying National Insurance.

 

[Yanni]

This is all true but then the wages we pay is becoming a service to society like council tax where you pay for schools, police etc. rather than reflecting the actual electrical value we get for the project.

In other words it is possibly more cost effective to pay two separate electricians that are fully qualified if the one with the apprentice is charging same day rate for his apprentice.

Obviously I don’t expect any electrician to agree with me as I see it from the customer point of view where they see it from their own benefit of expanding the business with maximum profit.

 

[GarethW]

Just because he's charging you twice as much doesn't mean to say that it's split equally between the two.
Thee electrician might be getting £300 and the apprentice £100

 

[Diver Fred]

£400 for two men on site is reasonable.
It's unlikely that you will get 2 qualified SE men to work together for you unless you are prepared to be on site all the time and be Project Manager.
£230 for single man "today" isn't bad. Consider he has to cover transport costs, tools, possibly registration fees, insurances, living costs - out of £230 he is probably taking home £100, does he have his own storage facilities or does he work out of his van and have to visit the supplies on a daily basis? a.k.a. the 'overheads' to enable him to work.
Apprentice costs aren't cheap, salary nowadays starting on 60%* of a tradesman, his employment costs (insurance, NI, possibly pension top-up, training/college fees, workwear, 'office time') so I reckon £170 isn't bad.

Guy I'm occasionally helping has had to put his rates up for the second time this year just due to inflation on his costs alone - it was either that or charge milage for jobs over 5 miles away in a rural area.

*60% does seem to be the usual apprentice salary rate. Don't think that the tradesman should cover the other apprentice costs out of his profit?

 

[Risteard]

The average day rate is around £230 a day and happy to pay that. My issue is should a 17 year old apprentice be expected to pay the same. That’s the point I was making.

I would expect a day rate to be around £300-350 (plus VAT if applicable) for an Electrician.

 

[oceansoul]

where they see it from their own benefit of expanding the business with maximum profit.

And what's wrong with that? Too many people think nowadays that profit is an evil word and no one should make a profit. Its this "own benefit of expanding the business with maximum profit" that's the reason the electrician is doing the work.

 

[Jackrae]

I think you're lucky to be getting off with the £400. Out of that he's to pay his apprentice a wage, an employer's pension contribution, whatever other benefits the apprentice is entitled to and that's all before he takes his own wage and repeats the process for himself. Unlike council tax the choice as to whether or not you pay the going rate is your choice. If the apprentice rate is 60%, that's after the business overheads have been deducted. Let's say that's around £10000 per year over 200 days (40 weeks x 5 days) or £50 per day to pay for his van, van's fuel, van's upkeep and tool replacement - recertification. So, 350 divided by 1.6 gives him £218 per day. That equates to £43600 per annum (200 days work) Out of that he's to pay taxation, insurance, pension and whatever else the government deems obligitory and any days he's not actually earning due to sickness, injury or whatever. So £400 doesn't sound too bad.

 

[Charlie George]

My day rate for me (Brickie) and a labourer would be over £400, and i just turn up with a bag of scrap iron and some string
i would be happy paying that amount for a good trade ,at work i had an improver(useless) bricklayer on £170 a day working with me for a few months, also remember the apprentice will be doing the chasing out/cleaning etc as well, letting the electrician get on with other things.

 

[flameport]

a day rate with him and his apprentice for £400.

Bargain of the decade.

my previous electrician charges me £200 per day.

At that price they are losing money. Perhaps why they are not available any more.