Dip In Floor: Structural Defect?

[Jacob1571]

Another Victorian House question. Don’t know how long-standing it is as we’ve just moved in, but some pretty big sag in the floor (pictured). Spirit level leaves huge gap underneath. Second floor. Is this likely structurally sound?

 

[tell80]

Has there been any historic knocking through and lintelling over in the ground floor below?
Any cracks in internal walls or external walls?
Do all door & window heads look level and easily open?

Your joists are running from left to right of the pics.
Floor boards have been lifted previously - for whatever purpose,
Was this floor mentioned in the mortgage or private surveys?

 

[Jacob1571]

Has there been any historic knocking through and lintelling over in the ground floor below?
Any cracks in internal walls or external walls?
Do all door & window heads look level and easily open?

Your joists are running from left to right of the pics.
Floor boards have been lifted previously - for whatever purpose,
Was this floor mentioned in the mortgage or private surveys?

No cracks in internal walls though hard to see externally because it’s pebbledashed or shared wall with neighbours. And all doors and windows sit true and open easily.

We’re not sure how much work was done below historically. It the standard kitchen extension in the house.

RICS survey hadn’t commented on it: ‘Where walked upon, suspended floor surfaces were found to be generally firm and even to the tread with no signs of excessive spring or distortion. It could be that some of the floor boards are loose in Bedroom 2. The carpet would need to be lifted to make these firm.’ The sag was there when we’d visited prior to the survey, though the degree was hidden a lot through a thick carpet.

No mention of why it had been lifted previously!

 

[tell80]

Are we talking about one bedroom only ie Bedroom 2?
Does the sag extend across the room - does it show anywhere else on the first floor.

Is the knock-thro to the kitchen below this floor?
Use a long level or a level and a long straight edge to check the level of the knock-thro lintel.
But first check your bubble level for accuracy.

You could remove the board(s) at where you think a lintel might be, and have a look at whats there?

Are any or all the chimney breasts still intact from GF to stack?

 

[Jacob1571]

Are we talking about one bedroom only ie Bedroom 2?
Does the sag extend across the room - does it show anywhere else on the first floor.

Is the knock-thro to the kitchen below this floor?
Use a long level or a level and a long straight edge to check the level of the knock-thro lintel.
But first check your bubble level for accuracy.

You could remove the board(s) at where you think a lintel might be, and have a look at whats there?

Are any or all the chimney breasts still intact from GF to stack?

Only one bedroom yes, and the chimney stack is in completely intact! Also, dip is on opposite side of the room to the knock thro. From what I can see, bows on the internal side. Underneath is just the middle of the living room. Will remove floor board tomorrow and see what’s going on underneath. Will share pics though am FTB so don’t know what we’re looking for!

 

[tell80]

There might be two sets of long joists that meet over thin air, and have been nailed together - something I've seen. Or too big notching or boring for pipes. Or pianos or safes. There are quite a few possibilities for sagging joists.
Whatever, please post pics of whatever you expose even if it looks fine.

By and large, with care & experience fixing the floor back to level is no great sweat.

 

[Jacob1571]

There might be two sets of long joists that meet over thin air, and have been nailed together - something I've seen. Or too big notching or boring for pipes. Or pianos or safes. There are quite a few possibilities for sagging joists.
Whatever, please post pics of whatever you expose even if it looks fine.

By and large, with care & experience fixing the floor back to level is no great sweat.

Right, not got the tools to cut through the floorboards proper so removed as much as I can next to the dip. The previous work seems to have been cabling. Joist itself seems level over where the dipped boards meet. Boards are both 2cm. Floor sags in one direction a little on the left side of the room, and a little in the other on the right. And there seems to be some concrete further down (floor is highest there). Also (last two pics) added what the joist near the sag look like going in the other direction. I’m stumped!

 

[Jacob1571]

The wall the concrete is near is the chimney breast so could be that..

 

[Jacob1571]

There might be two sets of long joists that meet over thin air, and have been nailed together - something I've seen. Or too big notching or boring for pipes. Or pianos or safes. There are quite a few possibilities for sagging joists.
Whatever, please post pics of whatever you expose even if it looks fine.

By and large, with care & experience fixing the floor back to level is no great sweat.

If the pictures are unclear btw, took a video. But can’t seem to upload here so would need to send via email!

Also, there does seem to be a similar pattern elsewhere in the room: dips a bit towards that wall, then goes level further in.

 

[^woody^]

Jesus, what a monster thread.

Joist ends rotten?

 

[Jacob1571]

Jesus, what a monster thread.

Joist ends rotten?

Haha, sorry Woody! Did you see rotten joist ends? Sorry, am inexperienced! The joists running across in the pictures run respectively into an internal wall and a shared terrace wall.

 

[tell80]

Thanks for all that effort.
Well done for laughing off that arrogant, cant bear to be challenged bit of sad sack.

Pic 395 shows what's probably the concrete hearth for the chimney breast.
The joisting around the hearth typically supports itself by Trimming - check google for trimming diagrams.
The joists are not supported by the c/breast itself.
The hearth is supported by the trimming, & sometimes is semi-supported by the c/b fireplace.
If you lift more boards you should expose the trimming.

Pics under the boards will show the trimmer if its there or will show joists going into the hearth.

Is the ceiling below the hearth flat & level looking?

 

[Jacob1571]

Thanks for all that effort.
Well done for laughing off that arrogant, cant bear to be challenged bit of sad sack.

Pic 395 shows what's probably the concrete hearth for the chimney breast.
The joisting around the hearth typically supports itself by Trimming - check google for trimming diagrams.
The joists are not supported by the c/breast itself.
The hearth is supported by the trimming, & sometimes is semi-supported by the c/b fireplace.
If you lift more boards you should expose the trimming.

Pics under the boards will show the trimmer if its there or will show joists going into the hearth.

Is the ceiling below the hearth flat & level looking?

I just appreciate that people on this site are willing to give up their time to help solve peoples problems!


The ceiling below the hearth looks to be flat and level. No cracks in it either, and it’s not been recently done up.

Picture E912 shows partly what might be trim on the left side of the concrete. To me looked like the joist had been cut in half width wise and continued along to the wall?

Obvs, can’t be sure, but, at this stage, do you reckon it’s now more or less likely that we’re needing to get the floor fixed or fixed very soon? We’ve only lived in new builds so are very unaware of the line between ‘character’ and serious defect.

 

[tell80]

Some of the characters who come on here simply want to be big shots, (on a DIY site?) - they have nothing else in their lives - they want to make points to the detriment of DIY'ers questions.

No need for fixing the floor very soon - perhaps its been like that for years.
But when the cause is determined you will be able to bite the bullet in your own time.

Any news on the hearth exposure issue?

 

[Jacob1571]

Some of the characters who come on here simply want to be big shots, (on a DIY site?) - they have nothing else in their lives - they want to make points to the detriment of DIY'ers questions.

No need for fixing the floor very soon - perhaps its been like that for years.
But when the cause is determined you will be able to bite the bullet in your own time.

Any news on the hearth exposure issue?

Genuinely thank you so much for your help so far!

I’m not going to be able to check it more for a few days to a week now as will be away for work.Will you still be around, and, if so, will quoting you here work or should I inbox?