Discovered double spurs

[capra]

We've just purchased a 1978-built house without getting an electrical safety test done.

Upon investigation I've found two places where a socket on the ringmain has a double socket spur and then that spur is also spurred to another double socket. The cables are white t/e 2.5mm (red/black) so the work is at least 2-3 years old which takes the job back prior to the people we bought the house from who were there for 14 months only.

I know the regs say you can't spur from a spur but what do they say about work that has already been done in the past? At present we don't have the money to completely rewire the property nor to start chsing out to extend the ring main. Can the original work be left as it is for the time being and be safe? These sockets are in the lounge and only TV/Cable equipment will be used and the occasional vacuum cleaner.

Any suggestions/comments gratefully accepted.

Jim

 

[Spark123]

I'm not sure to what extent your Electrical Safety Check was carried out, Periodic Inspection Reports to the IEE Regulations require the checks are carried out to the current edition of the regs.
Unfused spurs from unfused spurs are not allowed, however if a fused spur was to be inserted before the first unfused spur thus protecting both the double sockets then it isn't a problem.
Have a chat with your electrician, it may not be a major problem to fix.

 

[ericmark]

This

Appendix 15

• ericmark
• 31 Aug 2009
• 5

Shows changes July 2008 Note 434.2.1 limits unfused spurs to 3 meters.

shows what is permitted. using 20A instead of 32A MCB's will normally make all sockets comply. But not big job as already said to add a few FCU's and so make save.

 

[capra]

I'm not sure to what extent your Electrical Safety Check was carried out, Periodic Inspection Reports to the IEE Regulations require the checks are carried out to the current edition of the regs.

We didn't have a check at all - a long story that boils down to an oversight by our solicitor who thought it had been done and told told us he had the paperwork and all was OK...

Seriously, how many people have a periodic inspection? I lived in my last property for 19 years and none of the immediate 14 neighbours had one ever let alone periodically. We had one prior to selling but I doubt many people will do so if they're not moving/buying.

Anyway, thank you for the advice, I will look further into getting a couple of FCUs inserted. The double spurs both come from the second bedroom above so I'm probably only looking at having the FCUs inserted where the exisisting first spurs are and having those first spurs moved a couple of inches sideways, not as big a job as feared.

Out of interest, why is a second spur a no-no when people can plug a trailing socket with god knows how many additional sockets into the first spur and have nothing said?

Jim

 

[bloxy]

Out of interest, why is a second spur a no-no when people can plug a trailing socket with god knows how many additional sockets into the first spur and have nothing said?

Because those trailing sockets are protected by the 13mp fuse in the plug at the other end of the lead

Same principle as adding a FCU before the spurs, you can then chain as many as you like as they are protected by the 13Amp FCU.

 

[capra]

Because those trailing sockets are protected by the 13mp fuse in the plug at the other end of the lead

Same principle as adding a FCU before the spurs, you can then chain as many as you like as they are protected by the 13Amp FCU.

You see that's why I'm asking for the experts to offer advice. I don't know squat myself, other than to ask.

 

[bloxy]

Don't call me an expert! Just an experienced DIY guy passing on the bit of know how I have.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I lived in my last property for 19 years and none of the immediate 14 neighbours had one ever let alone periodically.

Yesterday I visited an estate agent to inspect the electrical installation in their offices. They had been there 20 years and the wiring was of the standard at the time. At some point the main earth had been pulled out of the incoming supply.

As a result an earth fault on any circuit would not have blown any of the fuses, instead, all of the pipework and other metal items in the whole office could have become live.

That is why you need an inspection, periodically. Everything may appear to be working just fine - until that fateful day when something goes wrong.

I would suggest you get an electrician to do an inspection report. It will cost you a couple of hundred max.
The report will tell you what must, should and could be done.


and could save you a lot of grief....

 

[Paul_C]

Note that while two double sockets on a spur would never have been compliant, if they had been single sockets, then the arrangement would have been compliant at one time.

The old regulations for non-fused spurs were that each spur could feed two single sockets, one double socket, or one stationary appliance.

 

[capra]

OK, an FCU it is.

Next question, same topic. Does the FCU have to be in the same room?

As I said in the original post we don't have the money to start working on the sitting room just yet but we are in the middle of doing the room above. This is where the spurs originate from so can the FCU be placed next to the originating socket or is that not allowed?

If it is OK I can get that work done without too much trouble as the floor is up and the walls are bare.

Jim

 

[Paul_C]

can the FCU be placed next to the originating socket or is that not allowed?

Perfectly acceptable.