do i draw my money out now

[Whitespirit66]

It's only since the Thatcher era that some of the spoils were spread around a bit.

The 1945 Labour Government had a jolly good go

Sorry John, my memory doesn't go back as far as yours. You're right of course. Prosperity increased for many in the 60s as well. It was the 80s where it really took off though. Yuppies, conspicuos consumption, etc, etc. Earlier booms were a bit more real though, based on manufacturing. The 80s was a bit smoke and mirrors, a lot of it on borrowed money.

Future generations will only get poorer in the UK. I'm afraid your generation have had it all John.

 

[joe-90]

It was a golden age built on growth from a virtual free source of energy (oil).

But it isn't cheap any more and we can't replace it with anything.

Basically we are shafted.

 

[Whitespirit66]

We don't need oil any more. Dave's sorting us out with some windmills.

 

[Djnikon]

It's not a new concept that only 5-9% of the worlds economy exists in a physical sense, the rest just being data and therefore "not real". It's been like this for a long time.
I agree that the oil situation has gotten out of control but it wasn't so long ago that the economy was, effectively, secured against gold. We still had recession and even a "great depression". Still we, as adaptable human beings, have overcome it. Why should this time be any different. I don't think for a second that it won't be tough but I don't quite think it's the downfall of humanity.
And that's coming from a self-confessed miserable ******* (otherwise known as a Scot)

 

[JohnD]

Gold, like credit, has only an imaginary value.

Apart from a very small amount of industrial and electronic use, it is entirely worth what someone will pay for it. This tends to fluctuate.

Like house prices, or the US budget deficit, it can't forever increase faster than everything else.

 

[Djnikon]

This may be the case John, but before oil, this was the commodity of choice for the banking systems.

 

[JohnD]

yep, plenty of "stores of value" including iron weights, cigarettes, copper coins, seashells etc. But the value is not intrinsic. It is nominal (and imaginary) and only holds up by consent.

 

[joe-90]

It's not a new concept that only 5-9% of the worlds economy exists in a physical sense, the rest just being data and therefore "not real". It's been like this for a long time.
I agree that the oil situation has gotten out of control but it wasn't so long ago that the economy was, effectively, secured against gold. We still had recession and even a "great depression". Still we, as adaptable human beings, have overcome it. Why should this time be any different. I don't think for a second that it won't be tough but I don't quite think it's the downfall of humanity.
And that's coming from a self-confessed miserable b*****d (otherwise known as a Scot)

The reason we can't overcome it is that our economy is based on oil. In fact our whole civilisation is built on CHEAP oil. Now that the cheap oil is coming to an end - so will the civilisation that was built on it come to an end. The problem is that we have 4 billion more people than we did pre oil age - and they'll just have to go I'm afraid. Check out the Peak Oil concept.

 

[JohnD]

what is today's guess for the date of the peak?

 

[joe-90]

It's already passed. China and India saw to that.

 

[JohnD]

so what date do you guess it was?

 

[ABCwarrior]

Too many fowk on the planet, thanks to oil and all the products off of it, especially mechanisation and the Haber-Bosch process of making fertilizer we've massively increased output per hectare of land for any given crop, but only on the back of oil. Think about the photos of whole communities out for harvest at the turn of the 20th century. Now it's one bloke in a field in a massive tractor(that's if he's not on the road refusing to pull into a layby and let the seventy cars behind pass...). Imagine when that oil runs out most folk won't work for a crap minimum wage but this may just mobilise some to get off their backsides to produce food...get prisoners off the smack and sky tv and back on the chain gangs!
Some population reduction will be inevitable in a Malthusian sense, but anyone heard of the Georgia Guide Stones? Seems some of the "elite" think that the world population should be kept at 500m....so 13 out of 14 people need to go if we're at about 7bn!

I've got a half acre, a puppy and an air rifle, sorted!

 

[joe-90]

so what date do you guess it was?

When the price of oil doubled. What difference does it make exactly when it was? We can produce 87 million barrels a day - and no more.

 

[JohnD]

no date then

 

[joe-90]

The date will only be known several years after the event. It's not a fixed line but a trend. When oil prices rise due to high usage and then usage falls due to high prices - than you know you are there. We are there.