Do I Need A Reroof

[chuckalicious]

Things are never easy....

Stirling council have stuck their nose in, and not only is my house in a conservation area, it's in a pretty strict one

No Spanish slate allowed. Only something Blue (forgotten the name) or reclaimed, slate, preferably Ballachulish slate, which is what's up there just now. I also need to submit a planning application

So, in other words, a lot more money.

So, roofer has suggested we strip roof and recover with as much of the existing slate as possible, only bringing in slate from elsewhere where required.

The only problem there is that the roofer can't, understandably, know how much will be waste before he gets up there and starts stripping, thus the cost is massively variable, and I don't have that kind of variable cash flow....

So my options are:

1. New slate (can't afford)
2. Reclaimed slate (can't afford)
3. Re-use what we can from the current lot (might be able to afford)
4. Just get ridge and few top courses of slate replaced (Can afford, but will not give any real long term benefit)

Suggestions?

 

[datarebal]

He should be able to make an educated estimate of condition of the slate, It is not that difficult! I very much doubt there would be anywhere near 50% loss..

 

[^woody^]

5. Just repair the leak.

 

[corrie]

The Blue slate that the council refer to may be French Blue. Your slate look like Scotch. They are very narrow..........probably 13x6 or 14 x7.

With that type of slate splitting can be a problem as there is not a great deal of cover on the bond. Therefore splits can leak and a lot of splits aren`t apparrent until slates are shed.

Obviously there are two slipped at bottom half which are leaks. The "tappers" look suspect at the ridge. Also unless the photo misleads the Zinc ridge looks perished. When they go that colour they become porous and you can actually tear the material with your hands. New ridges....use Titanium Zinc and heavy duty brackets. Get your Slater to give that ridge a good going over . Get the tappers sorted when ridge is off for checking or renewal.

You may have some nail sick on it......ask a Slater you can trust. In all honesty I have seen a lot worse. The reasons for re-doing a roof like that are when it is not viable to repair...ie Nailsick or soft slates. The scenario is when you try to repair one slate and 3 or 4 break or come out in the process. Yours doesn`t look to be at that stage from the pics.

If a slater can`t fix that roof then he is either not interested or not capable.

Alex

 

[chuckalicious]

Alex, thanks for the reply.

My slate is from Ballchulish, which is indeed Scottish. My own research has suggested that this kind of slate was always cut quite rough, which explains the different sizes and chunkiness.

I would agree that the cause of my leak is the ridge, I have suggested this to many roofers who have just said that they fixed the leak, only to not come back again when it leaks. I can understand why, it is 3 floors up, not your normal 2.

The quote I currently have does include replacing the ridge and all flashings.

As for leaks, from what I can see (and I've had a good scout about all the visible areas of the loft) during heavy spells of rain, only the top bit leaks, everywhere else seems dry. Obviously it's not to say it's not leaking, just not visibly, but then don't most unfelted slated roofs do that?

My reason for wanting to get it done is for peace of mind. Like most people, during bad wind, we loose a slate or two, which would suggest nail sick (yes?) and of course the leak and the dodgy ridge.

Depending on who I've asked, including the most impartial roofers I can speak to (my father in law is getting his roof recovered in Edinburgh at the moment, so he's passed the photos to them to ask their opinion. They wouldn't be doing the job due to being too far away, so I'd hope they'd have no reason to give bad advice) and they have suggested that doing a patch job may well just dislodge more slates and cause more damage than good. Recovering with as much of my original slate is the best option.

Of course, if I ask someone else, I may well get a different answer.....

 

[chuckalicious]

For anyone interested, here is the detail from the current quote:

1. ERECT SCAFOLDING.
2. STRIP ROOF OF ALL EXISTING ROOF COVERINGS TO BOARDS.
3. CHECK BOARDS REPAIR WHEN GO AHEAD GIVEN
4. RE FELT ROOF WITH F1 SLATING FELT
5. RENEW ALL VALLEYS AND RIDGES WITH ZINC
6. REPLACE ALL POLES AND STRAPS
7. SEAL ALL EAVES AND VERGES.
8. ALL SLATE WILL BE RESIZED THEN DRESSED THEN SLATED TO ROOF.

RE SLATE ROOF WITH NEW SPANISH SLATE AS REQUESTED. APPROX 78SQ MTRS

ROOF SIDE REDONE WILL CARRY OUR TEN YEARS WORKMANSHIP GUARANTEE.

TOTAL COST £5109.00

Does that seem reasonable? I certainly thought so, although after reading it again I don't know what poles, straps or verges are

 

[noseall]

Poles will be the labour.

 

[corrie]

Verges are the end section of your roof. They overhang the walls by 2 or 3 inches. Straps are what hold the Zinc ridge on . Poles are a piece of timber which is solid u shaped and is nailed onto the very apex. It fits into zinc ridge and accepts the nails which hold ridge on.

If the roof were mine I would have it repaired and go a cruise with the rest of the money Your insurance on any storm damage is your peace of mind anyway. That is why you pay it. Just a professional opinion my friend as it`s your house and your own choice in the end. Good Luck

Alex

 

[chuckalicious]

Your insurance on any storm damage is your peace of mind anyway. That is why you pay it. Just a professional opinion my friend as it`s your house and your own choice in the end. Good Luck

Alex

Alex, thanks for the explanations.

With regards to insurance, that's not really very economical. In very bad weather I normally lose a couple of slates. That's about £70 worth of work, based on work done in the past. My insurance excess is £100.

The sheer hassle of losing a slate, then having to phone around for a roofer until one is willing to come out, and then having to check after they've been to see if they've actually replaced it (many don't....) is just something I'd rather not have to worry about for one half of my roof, which is why, if possible, I'd like to get it recovered.

 

[Spooked]

corrie.
I agree, use the insurance and claim every penny when you can, they are thieves!!
However, lack of maintenance is not covered by insurance, if they decided to inspect and saw a roof in a sorry state they would think of some excuse or another not to pay.
ie, If your ridges blew off in a high wind and were loose in the first place (as in most cases) they, legally, are not liable.
But enough of this, lets all make a date and talk about this on the cruise you are going to organise!! Somewhere nice and hot please.

 

[chuckalicious]

Me and cruises don't mix

It's be a nice little gite in France

However.......

Just had another roofer round as I've decided to apply for the grant my council and Historic Scotland provide for projects such as this. He feels that my slates are too undersized to reuse, so the only option is to recover with new slate. He has never heard of Stirling Council requiring planning permission in this area, as he has done many jobs where no planning permission was needed, so he has urged me to speak to the council again to see if I do realy need it. If I don't, he sees no reason for not using good Spanish slate instead of Burlington Blue.

I need 3 quotes to apply for the grant, so here's hoping I can get 3 roofers out! Never happened in the past.

 

[datarebal]

They were not to undersize when they went on???
It is more work with smaller slate especially with diminishing courses..

Planning permission would be a first on me too.. But! what is common you will very likely need to show a sample slate for agreement.. hopefully they dont check out the look of your house to compare.

 

[chuckalicious]

Quick question:

does anyone know roughly the difference in price between Spanish and Burlington Blue slate?

to datarebel, I know what you mean, they weren't too small when they went on, but the roofers argument was that to do a neat job, most need to be trimmed and redrilled before being put back on the roof, and he thought they wouldn't withstand that.

What do you mean by "hopefully they dont check out the look of your house to compare"? Do you mean you hope they don't compare whatever new slate I get to the old stuff that's on there? It was the council who specified Burlington Blue.....

 

[chuckalicious]

Ok, to keep this up to date.....

It has now been confirmed that I do indeed need planning permission before I can go ahead with this work. It has also been stated that in the absence of suitable reclaimed slate, I can use new, Burlington Blue slate. I have now had one new quote using new Burlington slate which has come in at an extra £2000, however this new person is VAT registered, and so that cost includes the VAT, whereas the first quote wasn't including VAT as the guy wasn't VAT registered.

What he also suggested was that I should do the front of the house as well, because the area at the front is nowhere near what it is at the back, thus adding an obvious, but not doubling, cost.

I would agree that this would make sense, however I'm not sure how I/my neighbours/the council would view a mid terraced house getting a new slate roof with old ones on either side. I personally could cope with the difference in looks, safe in the knowledge that my roof was sound and dry.

Just to reiterate, I am in a conservation area and so must use slate, and it must be similar slate to that already used in the area, which rules out anything but Scottish/English/Welsh slate.

So far any possible start date would now be June/July so if/when I get it started I will be able to post pictures as it'll still be light when I get home

 

[Spooked]

Crikey moses what a mess about.
Are you sure you don't want to come on that cruise with the rest of us?
Theres only one place left so you will have to come on your own