Do The Experts Know What Part P Is About? - - NO!

[properleckie]

Davem,
I regularly connect up 'park homes' on sites, they arrive from the factory with partially filled in test certs, ie missing site specific readings such as Ze,PFC, Zs but r1+r2's ,IR's etc completed.
After connection I need to do full PIR as readings may have changed due to vibration on term. screws, damage etc.
Under 16th regs such buildings were not included as they were deemed caravans, however 17th regs 721.1 Headed 'Inst. in caravans/motor caravans' the new regs for them do not apply BUT as in note 1 it states
"For mobile homes & residential park homes the general requirements apply" in other words they count now as a house so part p is relevent.
Therefore your comment about DIY is imho incorrect,

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I suggest you seek out his posts and form your own conclusions - I can't quote any as he's been on my Ignore list for years...

So undercover then, but not dead?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Properleckie - they only count as a dwelling for Building Regulations purposes if the IET have been given the power to amend or create either primary or secondary legislation via the Wiring Regulations.

I must have missed where and when they were given that power - can you please point me at it, as I may need to update the Wiki.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Davem,
I regularly connect up 'park homes' on sites, they arrive from the factory with partially filled in test certs, ie missing site specific readings such as Ze,PFC, Zs but r1+r2's ,IR's etc completed.
After connection I need to do full PIR as readings may have changed due to vibration on term. screws, damage etc.
Under 16th regs such buildings were not included as they were deemed caravans, however 17th regs 721.1 Headed 'Inst. in caravans/motor caravans' the new regs for them do not apply BUT as in note 1 it states
"For mobile homes & residential park homes the general requirements apply" in other words they count now as a house so part p is relevent.
Therefore your comment about DIY is imho incorrect,

Are the forms not filled in so, as they can be removed and transported to other sites, so Ze,Zs and PFC can not be completed but r1+r2 and IR can?

 

[Paul_C]

"For mobile homes & residential park homes the general requirements apply" in other words they count now as a house so part p is relevent.
Therefore your comment about DIY is imho incorrect,

What BS7671 has to say about the extent to which it applies to caravans/mobile homes/park homes is entirely a separate issue from Part P.

Legally, a residential park home is defined as a caravan if it meets the criteria of The Caravan Sites Act 1968. The Building Regulations apply only to buildings, not caravans, so as a park home (within the defined limits) is not legally classed as a building, Part P is not applicable.

 

[properleckie]

As I said page 209 of jolly red book, it is only applicable if connected direct, not if thro. plug/socket as I read it.

Sect. 721 relates to caravans/motor caravans and as it says do not apply to the electrical installations of mobile homes,residetial park homes and transportable units where note 1 applies ; which says for these the general regs apply.

Just because these 'homes' arrived on a lorry with manhandleing wheels on does not make them caravans, normally once sited the wheels are removed, replaced by several 'axle stands', most get bricked in bases and are no different from a 'quick-build' house.

Regarding testing most of these come in 2 halves with several circuits disconnected underneath or in loft which must be reconnected on site so further eliminating any previous 'factory' readings.
Building regs Part-p applies to electrical work in the home, sorry if you are 'homeless'

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As I said page 209 of jolly red book, it is only applicable if connected direct, not if thro. plug/socket as I read it.

Is that p209 of the jolly red book of Building Regulations, or the jolly red book of Wiring Regulations?

Sect. 721 relates to caravans/motor caravans and as it says do not apply to the electrical installations of mobile homes,residetial park homes and transportable units where note 1 applies ; which says for these the general regs apply.

Will that be the general Building Regs, or the general Wiring Regs?

Just because these 'homes' arrived on a lorry with manhandleing wheels on does not make them caravans,

No, but it does make them a class of building exempt from the Building Regulations.

Building regs Part-p applies to electrical work in the home, sorry if you are homeless

Basically you don't have a clue about the differences between the scope of the Building Regulations and that of the Wiring Regulations, do you...

 

[properleckie]

Thank you BAS for that kind, thoughtful comment, nice to see open debate on a poorly written subject so well received!
I will do the forum a favour and not bother again, at least I won't have to worry next time I have to work on a 'plywood box' about registering the work, safety in the home...humm.btw does gas work not have to be done by 'gas safe' co.?

 

[Trog]

I wish I had seen the Warreng V BAN Part P EIC thread on ebuild a year ago.

It would have been so amusing to see his reaction to me popping up to tell him that as a Permanent Way Engineer, whose professional expertise electrically, is limited to installing and working round conductor rails. I have twice wired extensions to my own house, by the put it in the drawings and have Building Control do the checking route. Ending up with certificates for conformity with the building Regs both times, with no problems and no EIC's. If anything the Building Inspector was supportive, and seemed amused / pleased to have something slightly different to deal with.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If I can remember the forum where he had me banned, I'll let you know, and you can register and tell him.

Or would that be trolling by proxy?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thank you BAS for that kind, thoughtful comment, nice to see open debate on a poorly written subject so well received!

The Building Regulations and the Building Act are not poorly written, or at least not so poorly that it's not possible to tell that they don't apply to park homes.

The fact that the same Wiring Regulations apply to them and dwellings does not make them dwellings, any more than it makes any of the other 13 environments listed in 110.1 dwellings.

I will do the forum a favour and not bother again, at least I won't have to worry next time I have to work on a 'plywood box' about registering the work,

There you go - I've saved you the cost of a bacon roll.

safety in the home...humm.btw does gas work not have to be done by 'gas safe' co.?

Dunno - probably.

You'd need to look at the Gas Regulations to find out.

 

[Paul_C]

Sect. 721 relates to caravans/motor caravans and as it says do not apply to the electrical installations of mobile homes,residetial park homes and transportable units where note 1 applies ; which says for these the general regs apply.

Yes, the general regs. of BS7671 may apply to a residential mobile home rather than the caravan regs., but BS7671 is not the Building Regulations, and the BS7671 definition of a caravan is thus not applicable to determining whether or not Part P applies.

Just because these 'homes' arrived on a lorry with manhandleing wheels on does not make them caravans, normally once sited the wheels are removed, replaced by several 'axle stands', most get bricked in bases and are no different from a 'quick-build' house.

I don't disagree with that observation. In fact as somebody who likes residential park homes of this nature I'm often quick to point out that for all practical purposes once set up they're indistinguishable from many timber-framed prefabricated homes, and certainly quite different from a touring caravan or the single-unit static caravans in which I spent many holidays years ago.

But that aside, for legal purposes these residential park homes are classed a caravans, not buildings, so long as they meet the definition contained within the The Caravan Site Act 1968, so Part P (along with the rest of the Building Regs.) is not applicable.

Building regs Part-p applies to electrical work in the home, sorry if you are 'homeless'

Building Regs. Part P applies to a building which is a dwelling. A residential park home is most certainly a dwelling, but by legal definition it is not a building, however indistinguishable it might be from one once set up.

 

[dave.m]

Sorry to have started a debate about the classification of Park Homes.
Just to clear up a few points,

They come with wheels to make manouvering onto the base easy and are then jacked up off the wheels and lowered onto numerous stands depending upon how long they are, but usually two rows of six to each half of the home.
The wheels have to be left on the axles but are off the ground so are not load bearing.

The twin homes that come in two halves have multi plugs and sockets to connect up the circuits for the two halves.

Ours is fix wired to a meter on the site and every two years the site owner has to have his sparky contractors in to check his side of the wiring as far as our consumer unit.

When selling one of these there is no requirement for a HIPs or any inspection reports such as electrical or double glazing FENSA certs or gas certs. This can be a worrying situation if like ours the owner before the old dear that we bought ours from appeared to have thought he was a sparky and had run wires everywhere to fit outside lights and extra sockets from lighting circuits. How she wasn't killed I will never know but it took me a couple of weeks to find and disconnect and remove all his cowboy wiring and fittings.

We then had a new combi fitted but that was done by a CORGI guy who we know and I have got the Installation cert in the Operation and Maintenance manual.

dave

 

[ban-all-sheds]

no requirement for ... or gas certs.

Really?

I thought the Gas Regulations applied anywhere...

 

[dave.m]

I thought the Gas Regulations applied anywhere...

Not sure about that but the old gas fire and back boiler that were in when we bought it had no paperwork with them.