Do The Experts Know What Part P Is About? - - NO!

[Goldberg]

I thought the Gas Regulations applied anywhere...

Not sure about that but the old gas fire and back boiler that were in when we bought it had no paperwork with them.

They do apply everywhere, albeit with some non-domestic exceptions.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/19982451.htm

 

[dave.m]

Thanks for the link, I had a look through it but couldn't find anything that says that a gas cert must be provided when a park home changes ownership.

If I missed it please point it out.

 

[ericmark]

There must be a defined point where it becomes a building! I lived in a mobile home type building in the Falklands basic a load of boxes which fitted together but once completed we had a massive complex and it would have been considered a building. Most dictionaries will define a building as a structure that has a roof and walls and stands more or less permanently in one place.

I think you will find it is at the discretion of the planning authority as to what they count as a building.

There are of course other regulations which may cover. My sons home is too long to come under RCD regulations and does not come under BS7671 and to small to come under general shipping however the canal boat still has to be registered and although he could build a private lake and not have any regulations while using the canal system he has to abide by their rules.

A quick google found this which seems to say a mobile home is a building under Part 1 of the Building Act 1984. To be a caravan it has to be moved at least one a year. See here but there are so many clauses I have given up following it.

 

[Paul_C]

There must be a defined point where it becomes a building!

There is - It's the limits I noted above which are listed in the The Caravan Site Act 1968, which amended the definition in The Caravan Sites & Control of Development Act 1960. Section 13 of the 1968 Act:

13 Twin-unit caravans

(1) A structure designed or adapted for human habitation which—

(a) is composed of not more than two sections separately constructed and designed to be assembled on a site by means of bolts, clamps or other devices; and

(b) is, when assembled, physically capable of being moved by road from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer),

{.....}

(2) For the purposes of Part I of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960, the expression “caravan” shall not include a structure designed or adapted for human habitation which falls within paragraphs (a) and (b) of the foregoing subsection if its dimensions when assembled exceed any of the following limits, namely—

(a) length (exclusive of any drawbar): 60 feet (18.288 metres);

(b) width: 20 feet (6.096 metres);

(c) overall height of living accommodation (measured internally from the floor at the lowest level to the ceiling at the highest level): 10 feet (3.048 metres).

This is something which has raised queries on residential mobile-home parks in the past, where people have attached porches or similar extensions to double-wide homes which then means that they exceed the specified limits, and thus legally cease to be caravans and become buildings.

I think you will find it is at the discretion of the planning authority as to what they count as a building.

No, it's as defined by legislation and any relevant statutory instruments. As your first link to that book states, this is under the control of the Secretary of State, so, fortunately, local authorities have no power to arbitrarily override the definition of a caravan. Note this confirmation from that book:

Provided that a residential park home conforms to the definition given in the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 (as augmented by the Caravan Sites Act 1968), it is exempt from the definition of 'building' contained within the regulations

To be a caravan it has to be moved at least one a year.

If it falls within the limits set by the 1968 Act (i.e. not more than two sections, no larger than 60 x 20 ft., height no greater than 10 ft. internally), then the only requirement is that is it capable of being moved whole. There is no requirement that it ever actually is moved. You can find mobile homes on residential sites which have been in the same spot for 25 years, and they're still legally classed as caravans.

 

[properleckie]

thanks paulC ,daveM for info, bas for saving a bacon butty ...
Paulc I have not yet found a double unit with plug/socket joints all the 40+ I have done had Round JB's on one half and coils of cable on other to be connected in, usually long cable from when tested in works site.
some have a multi way adaptable boxes in roof void with din rail klippon connectors for fitting wiring from other half.
So no part-anything then....?....

 

[Paul_C]

Paulc I have not yet found a double unit with plug/socket joints

I think it was Dave.m who mentioned the plug & socket connections. I know in the past most were just strapped across between junction boxes, but I think the plug & socket links have started to appear more in recent years in an attempt to make the electrical connections between the two halves as foolproof as possible.

So no part-anything then....?....

Yep, no Part-anything and no legal requirement to notify building control if you want to do something which in a regular house would require notification.

I was seriously considering the possibility of trying to set up a double-wide park home on my own land a few years ago, hence why I'm familiar with the applicable rules.

 

[dave.m]

Just to clarify one small point, the width is now increased to 28 feet from the older rule of 20 feet.
The 20' was because a load 10' wide was the maximum width that could be transported by road without having a police escort so no one manufactured them wider beacause of the extra cost of escorting them on the roads.

Now they can be carried on the roads 14' wide and only need the warning triangles stuck on the sides, so the regs were amended to read 28 feet. I cannot find it at the monemt but a 24' wide twin home was sited on our park last year.

Also, when first sited, a NICEIC sparky checks the electrics once plugged or whatever and the circuits from the meter which is in a weatherproof cupboard along with about six others down the road, to the comsumer unit. In the meter cupboard there are two trip switches for each home.

dave

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I believe that you can have planning problems with park homes/mobile homes, not directly in building or having them, but in the conditions of use, i.e. they aren't to be used as a permanent home. Some operators who started out running a 2nd home or holiday-let site, and then "diversified" into allowing people to buy and live there 24x365, or who let them 24x365, have landed their customers in a mess.

 

[dave.m]

BAS,
There are two types of Park Homes sites.
One is a full residential where you live in it for 12 months and pay local council tax.

The other is a holiday park home where the council rules are that people can only stay in their home for either 10 or 11 months of the year. They do not pay council tax on the home but the site owner pays council tax on the land so their site rental reflects that. In effect they pay as much, if not more in site rent than we do in tax and site rent.
During the one or two months that they are not allowed to live in the holiday home, usually Jan and Feb, they can go into it during the day to decorate or whatever, but must be off the site by sunset. The site owner is responsible for security during this 'closed' period.
The licence for the holiday home site stipulates the period when they cannot live there so that no one can say they were away during the summer and are just getting their 10 months in.

Some people buy a holiday home and sell their normal home so they are not paying any council tax at all, and they fly off to Spain or somewhere for the time they cannot live in their home. One thing about doing that is that they cannot use the address as a mailing address so either have to get mail addressed to family or set up a postbox and go and collect their mail.


dave

 

[Paul_C]

Just to clarify one small point, the width is now increased to 28 feet from the older rule of 20 feet.

Interesting - I don't suppose you know the legislation which introduced that, do you?

The OPSI link above to the Caravan Sites Act 1968 is to the Act as revised to date, not the original 1968 text, so any amendment should appear in there. Maybe it hasn't made its way through onto the OPSI website yet.

I believe that you can have planning problems with park homes/mobile homes, not directly in building or having them, but in the conditions of use, i.e. they aren't to be used as a permanent home.

Yes, that's the problem as I see it. You don't need any permission to actually set up any caravan (by the legal definition) on your own land, since it isn't a building. But the planning permission comes into the picture for the use of the land, so the land needs to be zoned for residential use (unless you want to pretend to be a gypsy and play the "race" card, I suppose ).

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[dave.m]

Sorry, got it wrong, the max width is 22' :
http://www.timberspace.com/mobile-homes-legal.html

The definition of a mobile home gives a maximum size of 20m x 6.7m (66ft x 22ft) external and 3.48m internal ceiling height. There is no external roof height. This was overlooked in the original Caravan Act of 1968.

But the transport widths stand regarding loadings. There is one due oppose us in December but it is a 'single' one with a width of 13' 6" and one positions about two months ago next to that one was 13' but no escort when delivered.

dave

 

[Paul_C]

Are you sure? I was recently reading that before you can legally buy a holiday home, you have to prove that you have a permanent residence in this country.

Don't know where you read that, but it's utter nonsense. Lots of people own holiday homes who don't even live in the U.K. any more, or who have never lived in the U.K. and have no legal right to residence.

 

[ColJack]

does it need to be transportable or could you build in situ on a raised base?

 

[Paul_C]

Sorry, got it wrong, the max width is 22' :
http://www.timberspace.com/mobile-homes-legal.html[/QUOTE]

Thanks - Interesting to know that the length and width limits are higher now, so you can actually have a double-wide park home in excess of 1400 sq. ft. Here's the actual amendment, as cited by that page:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/uksi_20062374_en.pdf

But the transport widths stand regarding loadings. There is one due oppose us in December but it is a 'single' one with a width of 13' 6" and one positions about two months ago next to that one was 13' but no escort when delivered.

It's important to note, however, that the limits for transport by road are a completely separate issue from the legal definition of a caravan. I omitted the relevant part in my quote from section 13 of the Caravan Sites Act 1968 above for clarity, but it even makes this clear in that Act:

(1) A structure designed or adapted for human habitation which—

(a) is composed of not more than two sections separately constructed and designed to be assembled on a site by means of bolts, clamps or other devices; and

(b) is, when assembled, physically capable of being moved by road from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer),

shall not be treated as not being (or as not having been) a caravan within the meaning of Part I of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 by reason only that it cannot lawfully be so moved on a highway when assembled.