Does my ceiling light need to be earthed?

B

BobTodd

Having painfully spent a number of hours finally getting my new spot light into the ceiling (see http://www.diynot.com/forums/electrics/new-ceiling-spot-not-enuf-wire-holes.323701/#2397859), although the light works (and so does thankfully everything else in the house), I am a little concerned because I was unable to wire it all up fully.

This was so finicky i nearly threw the towel in a number of times. How the hell this was supposed to be possible with a ceiling rose i dont know, this is the product from B&Q http://www.diy.com/nav/decor/lighti...otlights/Dizzo-2-Light-Bar-Spotlight-11027606. You need child's fingers and the patience of a saint. 4 earths into one hole, with 3 wires in the next door hole and 2 in the other, + 3 loops...all in the working space of a square inch!?!?

Anyway, i had to free the plastic wire fitting from the light itself - this was attached to a small metal rod going into the earth hole on the lamp side.

I havent been able to get that rod back into the hole when screwing the main unit in, which means it isnt earthed right? Does this pose a risk, can we live with it?
 
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Short answer is Yes, it appears to be a Class 1 fitting and requires an earth connection.

The risk is if there should be a failure of basic protection and fault occurs your fitting could become live and pose a shock risk. As you have no earth the circuit protective device (fuse/mcb/rcd) would not operate and the fitting would remain live.
 
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You need child's fingers and the patience of a saint. 4 earths into one hole, with 3 wires in the next door hole and 2 in the other, + 3 loops...all in the working space of a square inch!?!?
If you had followed the wiki link I gave you then there is nothing finicky about it.
Ignore the lamp for the moment - at the end of the wiki link you will see that you end up with a four way teminal block - waiting for you to connect a 1mm T&E from the NLE at the terminal block to the LNE terminal block at the lamp - simples - no need for sainthood!!

Anyway, i had to free the plastic wire fitting from the light itself - this was attached to a small metal rod going into the earth hole on the lamp side.
I havent been able to get that rod back into the hole when screwing the main unit in, which means it isnt earthed right? Does this pose a risk, can we live with it?
You must have the earth connected - no ifs no buts...
If you have set up as wiki suggested then refit the lamps terminal block back to the lamp itself. The earth rod/connector should just slide in on one side of the loosened lamp terminal strip. Also reconnect the lamps live and neutral.
Then fit your T&E LNE to the lamps terminal strip - then connect the other end to the mains terminal strip.

I fitted a very similar lamp to a customers kitchen a few weeks ago and there is loads of room for connections.
 
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Does this pose a risk, can we live with it?
More likely you will die with it? It does need earthing correct. Likely the poor connections not only affect the light you have changed but others in the house.

Even when all items are covered by an earth leakage trip you still need the earths.
 
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BobTodd

So the 4 main earth wires haven't made this safe? I've talked to a sparky and he says the lamp earth is only extra protection...
 
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So the 4 main earth wires haven't made this safe? I've talked to a sparky and he says the lamp earth is only extra protection...
Not if they are connected to 'fresh air' - there must be a link from the four main earths to the lamp itself - as I said no ifs no buts.
The person who gave you that advice is not an electrician.
By the way - what does it say in the instructions that came with your lamp - I bet it differs from the advice given by the (not an) electrician.
 
B

BobTodd

So the 4 main earth wires haven't made this safe? I've talked to a sparky and he says the lamp earth is only extra protection...
Not if they are connected to 'fresh air' - there must be a link from the four main earths to the lamp itself - as I said no ifs no buts.
The person who gave you that advice is not an electrician.
By the way - what does it say in the instructions that came with your lamp - I bet it differs from the advice given by the (not an) electrician.

no thin air - the 4 earths are screwed in
 
K

kai

The manufacturers have to share the majority of the blame for this mess! They should provide proper terminal connection facilities for the UK based wiring system - perhaps someone should try suing an importer of lighting fittings on a no win no fee basis, when someone gets injured as a result!
 
B

BobTodd

no thin air - the 4 earths are screwed in
Not if they are connected to 'fresh air' - there must be a link from the four main earths to the lamp itself - as I said no ifs no buts.
Not sure how many times you need to be told this..

What do the manufacturers instructions say you must do?????

Well its not easy being a noob and being told two conflicting things, but I hear you.

this is the only length I have http://www.pegways.com/_al/wires2.jpg, I can't see how i can have it both ways - just don't have the room to manoeuvre. BTW those earth wires were like that (exposed).

Apart from a couple of how-to screw in the fixtures diagrams, there's nothing about the electrical side of things in the instructions.
 
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That looks like the terminal strip from the lamp.
Put it back where it belongs in the lamp with the earth bar connected.
You will need a 15amp three terminal strip to connect those 'main' wires
together.
Then run a new piece of 1mm2 T&E from the other side of the 15amp terminal strips L(switch live)NE to the LNE lamp terminal strip - you will then be able to connect the earth with ease.
 
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So the 4 main earth wires haven't made this safe? I've talked to a sparky and he says the lamp earth is only extra protection...
Extra protection? It's not protected at all for fault to earth as it's not connected to the fitting to earth.
no thin air - the 4 earths are screwed in
You will hopefully have continuity of the CPC to rest of the circuit, but not to the metallic fitting, which is dangerous!
 
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this is the only length I have http://www.pegways.com/_al/wires2.jpg, I can't see how i can have it both ways - just don't have the room to manoeuvre. BTW those earth wires were like that (exposed).

Apart from a couple of how-to screw in the fixtures diagrams, there's nothing about the electrical side of things in the instructions.

and why have you not sleeved each CPC?
 
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BobTodd

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