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Does this quote make sense considering what I originally asked for?

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by Dorian Leakey, 2 Aug 2017.

  1. Dorian Leakey

    Dorian Leakey

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    Hi Everyone,

    I just bought my first house and its going to involve some significant work redecorating and a rebuilding part of the house. Its a Victorian terrace in Bristol with two double bedrooms, two receptions, the kitchen and bathroom are stuck on the back and looks like an extension but they are original, they need to be knocked down and rebuilt due to an ongoing subsidence issue that's gone a bit far.

    The last rewire was in 2001, however they decided not to chase everything into the walls, there is ugly plastic trunking everywhere.

    With everything else going on, including where part of the circuits go being demolished and rebuilt I want everything chased into the walls before i decorate etc, I may as well get a new consumer unit at the same time in case i want to sell at a later date.

    I have asked for a quote based on not rewiring and me cutting all the chases and holes for the back boxes into the walls and one based on them doing all the work, what i received were quotes for full rewires, supplied below, the 2nd for a full rewire and concealing cables seems plausible for my locality, but the one with me doing the prep work seems to be ignoring me doing the prep work and my request not to rewire.

    My questions are,
    1) is a rewire so important? and can a 17th Edition CU be wired with some circuits red black with the new circuit to the rebuild blue brown and still be compliant?
    3) Shouldn't me cutting the chases etc and the covering up after reduce the price more, rewire or no? I am just trying to make it so the electrician is only electritioneering, the skilled bit, I will do the unskilled bit, that is all I want. Especially since now would also be the time to tidy up plastering everywhere and skim over it all.

    Thank you all for your time.

    upload_2017-8-2_12-43-16.png

    and this one-
    upload_2017-8-2_12-46-57.png
     
  2. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    Excuse me for asking for some confirmation of your plans.
    With regards to the quote not requesting a rewire, are plans to chase out, sink boxes for sockets/switches etc and route new cable as a rewire yourself. Or chase in new cables to alter/add on to existing circuits?
     
  3. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    Whether a rewire is important, would depend on the condition of the cables and whether it makes more sense to run new circuits rather then extend/alter existing ones.
    A new consumer unit can be installed to any core colours, new or old or a mixture of both.
    If I was do the so called "electritioneering" or skilled bit and the client said they would do the non-skilled/donkey work. I would want know that they have used the correct zones for cables, the cable is supported correctly and the correct cable for the current required for load and as per methods of routes and containment, plus any voltage drop incurred.
    If that is done correctly, which I would want to visualise and inspect prior to chase and routes being covered. Then I would be happier to reduce the bill for donkey work.
    But I would assume some of my time would be taking up instructing the donkeys on the permitted routes in walls and floors and the correct cable to use for the desired current rating.

    PS what happened to question (2)?
     
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  4. Dorian Leakey

    Dorian Leakey

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    Hi prentice boy,

    I was intending to just cut the chases and holes for the boxes, right next where the current outlets are, assuming the wiring, all from 2001 is sound, I could cap them, then let an electrician actually wire them, (i could do that bit, but wasn't assuming it would be me) the rebuild would need to be a new circuit I guess, but the wires could follow the same path there.

    I would have thought a test would at least be suggested before recommending a complete rewire, the last periodic test was in 2011.

    Not sure what I did to question 2, may have amalgamated it into 1.

    I feel you are concerned I may rewire loads of stuff so an electrician may need to clean up after me, I just want everything where it is now but chased in, plus the rebuild. When you say you would want to know how the customer did things, I can take direction if need be.

    A bit surprised also the quote wasn't broken down a bit more, even parts =£x labour =£y.

    I can also follow instruction regarding what capping or conduit I use, but I don't want to touch what's under the floorboards, it can be as it was from the last rewire.

    This may be partly up to my builder who passed my requests onto the electrician, but I am sure he would be clear.

    Thanks for this, clarifying the colour coding issue for a new CU is good for me to know, so great, it's not out of the question to use existing wiring if safe, is that correct?

    Thanks.
     
  5. Dorian Leakey

    Dorian Leakey

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    So to be clear, just chase where the existing stuff is, use existing wiring, leave it to an expert to connect and test.
     
  6. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    There are permitted safe routes to follow when chasing cables in walls, if you are using the same cables, then you will have to align your sockets and switches accordingly, as there may not be any slack cable to work with, to allow this.
    Also cables should be located correctly in floors. Use this link and look at the subsections concerning walls and floors.
    https://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Installation-Techniques

    But looking at the link it does state that cables can be chased in greater than 50mm and safe zones can be excluded, but there are other building regulations concern the safe structure of the wall, which most often prevents the greater 50mm chases being made.

    I certainly would do some testing of the installation prior to any alterations.
    But I would have quoted for the inspection and testing on the existing install, before I would have quoted for any alterations, as I would be much informed into what is really required after doing EICR (aka PIR back in the day)

    Capping/conduit is really not required when chasing cables in walls, although if you like, you can.
     
    Last edited: 2 Aug 2017
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  7. Dorian Leakey

    Dorian Leakey

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    Everything is following the existing layout, so would be like this-
    upload_2017-8-2_15-44-46.png

    When it suggests mechanically protecting the cables as an alternative, what products are we looking at? I am looking at suppliers and not seeing any saying they are specifically for this purpose.

    I should asses what was done last time under the floors, but it should have been compliant with 2001 regs, have they changed a lot?
     
  8. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    Mechanical protection, would obviously be something that protects the cables from damage by screw/nail/drill etc. There is no mention within BS7671 (wiring regs) that states what this should be, but rule of thumb and experience would suggest a 3mm gauge metal cap or conduit. You could if wished use an earth shield cable, but you are keeping cable, so not an option.

    The regulations concerning routing in floors, will have been the same in 2001, but I see stuff that is installed now that does not comply to regs.
    The engineer that would attend/carry out a PIR/EICR, will agree on limitations on the inspection of cables routes, which will not go to the extent of ripping floors up.
    So it will not be confirmed unless you request this is looked at.
     
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  9. Hot&Cold

    Hot&Cold

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    Dorian,do yourself a favour and leave it all to the competent installer.

    you will not save any money on being in the way (y) maybe cost you more,
     
  10. Dorian Leakey

    Dorian Leakey

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    The competent installer? Is he the only one?
     
  11. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    I am unsure what is mean't by this but there is a website that you can go to that will list registered electricians, that can self cert/notify work.
    The term competent is credited to them, but alas you can take that with a pinch of salt if you are unaware of their skill set. Yet saying that I would still recommend you use this site to select an electrician from, as they must be insured and most offer at least a 5 year warranty.

    Ignore the comments on your posted quotes, as any newly rewired cable of circuits, you would expect with good quality cable to last over 50 years not just 30.
     
  12. Dorian Leakey

    Dorian Leakey

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    I was responding to old and bold, who said to leave it to the competent installer, which seems to be saying don't even think about merits of the quote or getting other quotes, just accept without question.

    Even doing nothing myself I should ask around and discuss price, surely?
     
  13. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    It is advised to always get at least 3 quotes. But saying that, the prices quoted, if including materials does not sound extreme. I would be concerned though, with any electrician using the term 'part p certificate'.
     
    Last edited: 2 Aug 2017
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