Does this switch have a fuse?

[acmedone]

This link shows the distribution for outdoor and hallway lights (through the timer) and TV amplifier in a block of flats. http://tinyurl.com/7pryqdp

As in thread title, does the arrowed switch box have a fuse in it?

Further comments:
~ The fuse before the meter is 100A
~ The tails from the meter are rather thin rubber/fabric covered
~ The TV amplifier is fed by the white T&E between the switch and black connector box. The cable terminates in a socket just before the amplifier
~ The switch box receives its earth down this T&E
~ The black connector box has an earth going into it (seen under the black cable) for the switch and TV and hence to the socket but the box itself has no continuity to earth
~ One of the sheathed cables is used for the landing lights (the other no longer used). Since the connector box has no earth, the sheaths are not earthed.
~ The active sheathed cable goes to a metal junction box on the 2nd floor to branch to the landing light and an outdoor light through T&E.

I am wondering what I should discuss with an electrician? Obviously make sure of earth continuity. Presumably replace the switch with 2xRCBO enclosure. TV amplifier and socket as 20A radial. Lights through an immersion heater timer, perhaps?

 

[riveralt]

I am wondering what I should discuss with an electrician?

I too am wondering - since you haven't told us what the problem is.

Even then why are you planning solutions when you are not an electrician and I assume the block of flats is not your property.

Are you working on the flat installing something electrical that has caused you to raise this question or are you looking to do the work yourself and looking for solutions to the problem whatever that is?
I only ask this because just a few weeks ago you were asking about Consumer units and RCDs RCBO's that your were perusing and now you appear to be planning for them to be fitted together with a radial circuit and other ancillary stuff.
//www.diynot.com/forums/electrics/consumer-units-17th-ed-rcds.309255/

 

[flameport]

To answer the question, the metal box will have at least one fuse in it.

I am wondering what I should discuss with an electrician? Obviously make sure of earth continuity. Presumably replace the switch with 2xRCBO enclosure. TV amplifier and socket as 20A radial. Lights through an immersion heater timer, perhaps?

RCBOs - totally unnecessary
20A for a TV amplifier and a couple of lights - not likely.
Immersion heater timer for lighting - that's hardly an improvement on the plug in effort shown in the picture.

For the rest:
100A fuse - how do you know this? Have you removed it and looked? Hopefully not.
The 'switch box' almost certainly does NOT ''receive its earth' via the T&E
The rubber/cotton wires should have been replaced years ago. Their size isn't particularly relevant.
Those 'sheathed cables' are of the kind that can't be worked on without specialist tools that you do not have.

 

[securespark]

He has mentioned the issue: No earth continuity to circuits.

 

[acmedone]

To answer the question, the metal box will have at least one fuse in it.

OK, the cover is not easily removed

20A for a TV amplifier and a couple of lights - not likely.

.. and the pair of sockets.

For the rest:
100A fuse - how do you know this? Have you removed it and looked? Hopefully not.

Electricity supplier fuse, it's printed on the holder

The 'switch box' almost certainly does NOT ''receive its earth' via the T&E

Oh, it most definitely does.

Those 'sheathed cables' are of the kind that can't be worked on without specialist tools that you do not have.

No plans and no obvious need.

 

[ericmark]

The box likely has a rewire-able fuse which means it could be any size. Sometime links instead of fuses are used so only way to know is to look.

You seem to have a timed and non timed supply into the black box and working out what you have is impossible.

The only way to work it out is to be on site.

 

[acmedone]

I am wondering what I should discuss with an electrician?

I too am wondering - since you haven't told us what the problem is.

Err, unearthed metal parts

Even then why are you planning solutions when you are not an electrician and I assume the block of flats is not your property.

What has that got to do with you? Stop posturing.

Are you working on the flat installing something electrical that has caused you to raise this question or are you looking to do the work yourself and looking for solutions to the problem whatever that is?

No

I only ask this because just a few weeks ago you were asking about Consumer units and RCDs RCBO's that your were perusing and now you appear to be planning for them to be fitted together with a radial circuit and other ancillary stuff.

I am trying to decode a terrible signal to noise ratio in this forum to gain some understanding. Either you are trying to be over protective of your skills or you haven't been exposed to a scientific environment and getting into "stuff" for it's own sake is not part of you.

As it happens, the freehold of the flats is owner shared and I volunteered to look at why a light does not work. Looking around the system I found a dog's dinner and I shall recommend some upgrading. For my own satisfaction I do not want to tell an electrician to "just fix it". Oh, and that earlier question about CUs was a tangent to something else.

 

[acmedone]

The box likely has a rewire-able fuse which means it could be any size. Sometime links instead of fuses are used so only way to know is to look.

Thanks. So not as bad as it might appear. Do you have a picture showing what it looks like inside?

You seem to have a timed and non timed supply into the black box and working out what you have is impossible.

It's OK, I know exactly what's inside the black box. I have given a summary.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What has that got to do with you? Stop posturing.

What it has to do with him is his sense of responsibility to the world at large, and to the residents of your block of flats in particular, to dissuade you from doing electrical work were that your intention.

 

[riveralt]

I am trying to decode a terrible signal to noise ratio in this forum to gain some understanding. Either you are trying to be over protective of your skills or you haven't been exposed to a scientific environment and getting into "stuff" for it's own sake is not part of you.

I thought I was being perfectly loud and clear are you missing the message - STOP EXPERIMENTING in your scientific environment - you're in the real world and YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR DEPTH! For example:

~ The black connector box has an earth going into it (seen under the black cable) for the switch and TV and hence to the socket

The black box does not have an earth to it - it is bonded to the water pipes. Didn't you learn and understand that here:
//www.diynot.com/forums/electrics/more-bonding-questions.307977/

but the box itself has no continuity to earth

What type of testing have you done to confirm this? What about the pyro? Are you sure the main fused switch isn't earthed there is an earth cable visible?

As it happens, the freehold of the flats is owner shared and I volunteered to look at why a light does not work. Looking around the system I found a dog's dinner and I shall recommend some upgrading. For my own satisfaction I do not want to tell an electrician to "just fix it". Oh, and that earlier question about CUs was a tangent to something else.

Do the other occupiers of the flat know that you are seeking help from a diy forum to make this recommendation? Or have you convinced them that gleaning a small amount of information about Consumer Units and main protective bonding (which you still don't understand) through this forum qualifies you to design, install and test circuits. You are the reason Part P was invented, to protect the fooled from the fool.
The 'electrician' you speak to may listen to your 'advice' but since he will be designing, installing and testing the installation I'm sure he will stick your advice where it belongs. And if you start dictating the circuit design to him expect him to walk away, I would.
But then it was always your intention to do this work yourself, wasn't it?

 

[JohnD]

The 'switch box' almost certainly does NOT ''receive its earth' via the T&E

Oh, it most definitely does.

What makes you say that? The normal and correct arrangement is for the switchfuse to "receive" its earth from (somewhere) and to "provide" it to the load side. The T&E is the load side.

 

[acmedone]

I am trying to decode a terrible signal to noise ratio in this forum to gain some understanding. Either you are trying to be over protective of your skills or you haven't been exposed to a scientific environment and getting into "stuff" for it's own sake is not part of you.

I thought I was being perfectly loud and clear are you missing the message - STOP
EXPERIMENTING in your scientific environment

You see, you are stuck with the idea that it is merely about experiment.

~ The black connector box has an earth going into it (seen under the black cable) for the switch and TV and hence to the socket

The black box does not have an earth to it - it is bonded to the water pipes.

Sigh. The bonding wire goes inside the box but does not connect to the box. (Those are redundant supply cables.)

but the box itself has no continuity to earth

What type of testing have you done to confirm this?

Mk 1 eyeball and a multimeter.

What about the pyro? Are you sure the main fused switch isn't earthed there is an earth cable visible?

The wire you can see looping out of the bottom merely comes out of the innards of the switch and connects to the case. There are no other possible "other ends" for that loop.

Do the other occupiers of the flat know that you are seeking help from a diy forum to make this recommendation?

Until I told them, the other owners were innocent of possible deficiencies. Knowledge does not change the physical status of the configuration.

Or have you convinced them that gleaning a small amount of information about Consumer Units and main protective bonding (which you still don't understand) through this forum qualifies you to design, install and test circuits. You are the reason Part P was invented, to protect the fooled from the fool.

You believe that proving an absence of an earth is foolish? You think that the ability to distinguish between a good/bad configuration is worse than not having that ability?

We're not discussing military secrets. When we are born we have no knowledge or understanding of the world but we are born with the capacity to get from there to where we are now. The attitude "you don't understand so I'm not going to tell" is not productive. Telling once may not achieve immediate understanding but receiving information from various sources will often allow it to be assembled.

I know about electrical networks; in circuit terms, the nest of domestic cabling is incredibly trivial. I am trying to improve my mental database of equipment and regulations (like them or not).

The 'electrician' you speak to may listen to your 'advice' but since he will be designing, installing and testing the installation I'm sure he will stick your advice where it belongs. And if you start dictating the circuit design to him expect him to walk away, I would.
But then it was always your intention to do this work yourself, wasn't it?

The electrician will do what (s)he does. It doesn't rule out a dialogue to find a cost effective alteration (and to avoid hiring someone with inflated opinions).

 

[acmedone]

The 'switch box' almost certainly does NOT ''receive its earth' via the T&E

Oh, it most definitely does.

What makes you say that? The normal and correct arrangement is for the switchfuse to "receive" its earth from (somewhere) and to "provide" it to the load side. The T&E is the load side.

I know. Deviating is why it is noteworthy.

 

[JohnD]

What makes you say that?

I know. Deviating is why it is noteworthy.

so, what makes you say that it "receives" the earth from the T&E?

 

[acmedone]

What makes you say that?

I know. Deviating is why it is noteworthy.

so, what makes you say that it "receives" the earth from the T&E?

... because it is a better conductor than air.