Doitall and co, it's the 'one pipe' system lady (please?)

[monkeybird]

Hi again,

OK the latest guy has given an acceptable quote but is suggesting he fits a Valiant (Vaillant?) Ecotec Pro Combi 28he to our existing pipes...

I'd really like to know if you think this would work or is a mad idea given the pipes, radiators etc that I outlined to you previously?

He has also suggested 'room stat to be fitted; system to be flushed and refilled with inhibitor'...

Will this work?

Thanks (I know I've taken up lots of your time but really do appreciate your expert and neutral viewpoints...)

I have also had a brochure from Mr Kidd he has not sent a list of installers because he wants me to send him some floor plans and details of our chimney first. Bless him and his personal service. God knows how they make a profit!

 

[Deleted member 105431]

That is a great and very reasonably priced boiler so it's a good choice but if you insist on keeping the old rads and pipework at least fit a magnaclean on the return to boiler and make sure the old system is well flushed/cleaned out!

 

[doitall]

Sorry Monkeybird No,No,No

You must have an open vented system.

 

[monkeybird]

See, that is what I thought!

Thanks.

Back to the drawing board. Still trying to find local installers for old-fashioned boilers.

 

[monkeybird]

PS Are they doing this because they don't know any better? Or because they know they will get half way through, tell us 'oh oh, it doesn't work' and then be able to charge us twice as much again to rip all the pipes out after all?

Or am I just being cynical?

 

[doitall]

PS Are they doing this because they don't know any better? Or because they know they will get half way through, tell us 'oh oh, it doesn't work' and then be able to charge us twice as much again to rip all the pipes out after all?

Or am I just being cynical?

Lets look on the bright side and assume they don't know any better.

see also your other post.

 

[DP]

Vaillant make several types of boilers. First digit of the three digit number will tell you type of boiler, digits two and three indicating boiler output. 837 would be a combi boiler rated at 37 kwatts, 637 would be non combi boiler at 37kwatts. You will be well advised to look at 428 which is for open vented systems and is rated at 28 kwatts. Suggest you look at Vaillant website, which takes you by the hand to select a boiler suited to you.

If I remember correctly, boiler will downsize to 6kwatts heat out all the way upto 28kw.

Steer well clear of people suggesting you should go the combi route. Assuming you follow their advise, do seek assurance and gurantee that system will not weep from higher pressure it will be subjected to, leading to constant pressure adjustment leading to premature sedimentation of system.

 

[doitall]

Evening DP

Another problem going the combi road, all the existing taps will be low pressure and likely to need changing.

 

[DP]

Hello john. How goes it.

Monkeybird, my impression of your installation is that it is basically a ring. Boiler heated water is forced through this ring by a pump. The flow through radiators is by convection/ gravity. If no water was to flow through the rads, water flowing through the ring (for our argument assume zero heat loss) would end up at the boiler at the same temperature. If boiler thermostat was set at 55 (you can see the temperature you set on the display panel), boiler burner would be off but STILL be in condensing mode.

Let us say now you turn a few rads on because it is getting baltic. Flow through the rads mixes with 55 degree C water to cool it a bit and boiler stays in condensing mode. In fact there is a sticker on the Vaillant boilers that suggests you set the boiler thermostat to seasonal setting (to take advantage of condensing mode). Should you opt for weather compensator, you set your Vaillant to maximum setting on the boiler thermostat and let weather decide what the flow temperature from the boiler is going to be.

Why not call Vaillant and see what they can suggest?

Vaillant is a good name marred by some of their recent boilers. If you were looking for a boiler to last a lifetime (almost), you are some 15 to 30 years too late. Sine 18 was the Bismark was on the sea, VCW 242/ 282 was the model you forgot how to fix because its failure was so rare. Another boiler close to my heart is the Vokera Flowmatic. One such boiler was recovered from a skip to overhaul and put to service in a house that had a Friday boiler. It has not missed a beat 7 years on.

 

[Deleted member 105431]

Having worked on many Vokera Flowmatics I'm very surprised. They're usually ****e!

 

[doitall]

Well enough for a meal if you get washed out in Bonny Scotland Danny

The problem monkeybird is having is getting an engineer who understands the system and doesn't want to rip the lot out

This is bread and butter to me before I hung up the kit I refuse to believe we're all dead or retired.

 

[DP]

If I were near I would be looking for an invite to look at this boiler. I suspect an O ring has failed. I could be wrong but I have rescued similar boilers that were leaking from the heat exchanger (last one, a Mexico, some seven months ago)

WRT CO bleeper, I wonder if the heat exchanger was swept, burners cleaned, flue flow and spillage checks carried out along with gas rating the boiler. These tasks would take take (me) about an hour on average to complete. The the ventilation up to scratch?

 

[doitall]

Virtually my last job on the kit

 

[monkeybird]

Thanks doitall, DP and dangermouse et al

Yes. the problem is not so much the system or particularl boiler (I now kind of understand the physics of what we need: non-pressurised system cos the joints might leak; enough 'oomph' from the water heating to push the furthest radiator to warm enough by water essentially moved by heat convection; something to filter the crappy, iron-silt laced return water so it doesn't damage the intestines of said boiler). And I now know some makes and types thanks to all the helpful blokes on here.

But I'm still struggling - as doitall astutely points out - to find someone competent to fit such a thing.

After the bank holiday, I'm ringing the local council building conservation people to ask if they might know someone; I'm gonna ring a local company that seem to have lots of contracts for schools, council buildings etc; and I'm going to carry on trying to find recommended installers for Kidd, Worcester etc..

Any other suggestions welcome. Really, I just need a sound and sage old bloke with a bag of spanners, a Corgi registration and a fascination for big pipes. Sound like anyone round here?

 

[Biggles..]

We recently installed a system similar to yours in an old hall, Altough we presurised it we used a broag made low loss header and shunts for the seperate heating and hot water circuits.

Vaillant are a good choice,unfortunately due to flueing options we had to fit a keston,but vaillant now make their own low loss headers advertised in thier ecomax46 info whic would suit your system.