Double gang Two lights

[PBC_1966]

Under ETCI Rules?

No - it is prohibited.

So is triple brown & earth actually available in the 26 counties?

 

[Risteard]

Under ETCI Rules?

No - it is prohibited.

So is triple brown & earth actually available in the 26 counties?

I have never seen it, but then there wouldn't be any reason for it.

Twin brown is all that is needed for strappers and the permanent and switched phase conductors can be taken with a PVC/PVC single brown, or a brown & earth.

 

[winston1]

Under ETCI Rules?

No - it is prohibited.

So is triple brown & earth actually available in the 26 counties?

Even twin and earth in any colours is not available in most of them. Singles in conduit is more common. And bare earth wires, no way.

 

[PBC_1966]

Twin brown is all that is needed for strappers and the permanent and switched phase conductors can be taken with a PVC/PVC single brown, or a brown & earth.

Sure, but sometimes just running a 3-core to one of the 2-ways would be more convenient than two separate cables. It sounds as though the Irish wiring rules pretty much forbid the reidentification of any conductor with sleeving and require it to be the "correct" color throughout its entire length, which seems unnecessarily strict.

Do you know how long this rule has been in place? Was it so before brown/black/grey/blue were introduced? Speaking of which, am I imagining it or did I read once that between abandoning black as neutral and the full adoption of the current European coding, Ireland had its own unique system of brown/red/yellow phases with blue neutral?

Even twin and earth in any colours is not available in most of them. Singles in conduit is more common.

Interesting, I hadn't realized that. I know Ireland (the Republic part, that is) has long followed certain European wiring traits more closely than the U.K. ever did, but is this specifically a more recent trend?

 

[Risteard]

Speaking of which, am I imagining it or did I read once that between abandoning black as neutral and the full adoption of the current European coding, Ireland had its own unique system of brown/red/yellow phases with blue neutral?

Yes. In the south the old phase colours were Brown (L1); Red (L2) and Yellow (L3), with Blue for Neutral.

Although I don't agree that T&E is uncommon in house wiring. Although there is a new standard which will come into force before too long which will mean that T&E as we know it will be replaced with a full-sized, insulated cpc.

(The implementation date for Amendment 2.2 to ET101:2008 incorporating Amendment No. 1 (2011) is 5th September, 2017).

 

[JohnW2]

... Although there is a new standard which will come into force before too long which will mean that T&E as we know it will be replaced with a full-sized, insulated cpc.

I have to wonder what is the point in having insulated CPCs. After all, it's perfectly acceptable for ('single-insulated') singles to come into contact with earthed metal (e.g. conduit), so I wonder what is the concern about uninsulated CPCs?

Kind Regards, John

 

[PBC_1966]

I suppose that if you're going to apply sleeving at every termination anyway it's probably just as easy to have the earth insulated throughout the cable to begin with, and adds minimal cost to a reel of cable. But as we've discussed before, it's really not clear why it was decided to specify sleeving at terminations in the first place, other than somebody just thinking "it might be a good idea."

I know from the pictures I've seen the Australian version of T&E has an insulated earth throughout, and also appears to place the live ("active" in their terminology) in the middle with neutral & earth on the outside edges, at least on some cables.

 

[PBC_1966]

Hmmm...... Just did a quick search and can't seem to find the type with red in the middle, but I'm sure I remember seeing it some years ago. But here's an Australian version with insulated earth in the middle:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/Wire,-Cabl...Power/Twin-Earth-Flat-AC-Mains-Cable/p/WB1568

 

[JohnW2]

I suppose that if you're going to apply sleeving at every termination anyway it's probably just as easy to have the earth insulated throughout the cable to begin with, and adds minimal cost to a reel of cable.

I'm not sure that the cost would be 'minimal', but my main question remains "what is the point/purpose?".

But as we've discussed before, it's really not clear why it was decided to specify sleeving at terminations in the first place, other than somebody just thinking "it might be a good idea."

As I've said, I can understand that ... I would not be all that comfortable pushing an accessory into a back box knowing that there were 2 or 3 inches of bare CPC which could theoretically end up touching anything (including live terminals) after that pushing had been completed!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I suppose that if you're going to apply sleeving at every termination anyway it's probably just as easy to have the earth insulated throughout the cable to begin with, and adds minimal cost to a reel of cable. But as we've discussed before, it's really not clear why it was decided to specify sleeving at terminations in the first place, other than somebody just thinking "it might be a good idea."

Romex also has a bare cpc, I believe?

 

[securespark]

Maybe it's not to do with insulation but identification?

 

[PBC_1966]

Romex also has a bare cpc, I believe?

Yes.

 

[PBC_1966]

Maybe it's not to do with insulation but identification?

It's the norm here to leave earths bare (as it used to be in Britain). There's no problem identifying them, since all the other conductors are insulated.

 

[JohnW2]

Maybe it's not to do with insulation but identification?

The absence of insulation surely serves as very clear identification. Indeed, anyone who knows anything at all about electricity would surely realise that a bare conductor could not possibly be anything other than a CPC (or other protective conductor).

... talking of which, is there actually a requirement for things such as bonding conductors and earthing conductors to be insulated? Without looking carefully, I'm not at all sure that there is. They certainly didn't used to be in many cases.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

anyone who knows anything at all about electricity would surely realise that a bare conductor could not possibly be anything other than a CPC (or other protective conductor).

Unless it's a busbar...