Double insulated? [poll]

[RF Lighting]

This week I fitted this light for a customer which I purchased from a well known electrical factors in the city.

It is marked as being double insulated.

Do you agree?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I was going to say not with single insulated conductors but realise the body is plastic.

Are the wall fixings plastic as well with no metal accessible - screws?

 

[securespark]

Is it plastic?

Looks metallic to me....

In which case, .

 

[Echo the husky]

If the internal wires were sleeved/ insulated and sheathed I would say yes, but from the photo the wires look single insulated. A non approved design change in the factory to save money perhaps?

 

[ericmark]

What is there to stop anyone putting a double square sticker on the unit? My Mothers house has no earths on the lighting and kitchen was lit with a fluorescent lamp had been for years the first one actually plugged into the BA22d lamp holder 1960's era.

When the room was altered for disabled use the electrician forgot to re-wire the lights, so hunt was on for a class II light unit, all tube fluorescent now seem to be class I even when in a total plastic enclosure. However I found a company called The Double Insulated Lighting who did a 2D unit Class II I selected Osaka Unit which seemed to do the job with today a price ticket of £53.85 however looking in B&Q and like I could find what looked like the same lamp but Class I.

As far as I was concerned it had the label so the electrician doing the work would fit it. I would not dream of swapping a 2D tube with the power on and that was only time I was likely to touch the fitting. However I still wondered if it was a Class I item with a Class II label.

I have noted that G5.3 lamps (MR16) are made 220 volt and near every fitting I have seen is designed for 12 volt so has no earth connection. OK this is an extreme example, but the point is not having an earth connection even being designed as SELV which must not have an earth connection does not mean it is suitable for use with low voltage.

So what happens if the unit in the fullness of time gives some one a shock. Let us assume it kills some one so we have a court case. They are looking at who to blame. Let us assume it is not really Class II low voltage, but has the double square sticker.

So who is blamed?
1) The manufacturer who we can assume says designed for extra low voltage and they did not put on the double square sticker.
2) The whole sale outlet who we will assume says they did not even look to see if Class II or Class I they claim they did not open the box.
3) The retail outlet who claims they bought it in good faith and did not know if it was marked as Class II or not.
4) The electrician who claims he bought it clearly marked with a double square sticker on it showing it to be Class II.

Some one clearly stuck a bulb in and put a sticker on it, but who? How would the courts find out, if the unit is say 10 years old and the heat caused the insulation to crack. Just can't see even the courts finding out who took a SELV item and stuck on the sticker and passed it off as Class II.

 

[Gteuk]

The conductors could be double sheathed as with conductors on some underfloor heating systems. the standards of class 2 are flimsy at the best of times and some manufacturers may Class II by means of separation.

I have seen this claimed before by manufacturers but there has been no court case to clarify.

As for the who is to blame in the UK,, there is a defining rule that the first importer of the product, if sourced outside the UK is accountable. It is the responsibility of the first importer to test that the equipment is fit for purpose and complies fully with UK registration.

Now the fun bit, who enforces said rules, The IET advise but have no authority over it, Trading standards wont enforce until there is a death of grievous harm. Basically no one takes responsibility. I know this because I tried to get a very dangerous product taken off the market with evidence of said dangers i.e. Causing fires, and every institute saw the potential danger but were not able to do anything as there was currently no losses. I am happy to say with pursuance all distributors stopped selling that product in the UK.

 

[RF Lighting]

The fitting is all metal apart from the mirror bit, and the singles are so easy to trap between the wall and the edge of the metal back part of the fitting

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not much you can do apart from report it to Trading Standards for the area where you bought it, write to the chief executive of the people you bought it from, and see if you can get the "manufacturer" or importer to explain why they think it is DI.

 

[bernardgreen]

It might be possible to sucessfully claim it complies with the regulations for Double Insulated when made and sold.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't know what the regulations actually require, but I'd be surprised if they allowed SI conductors in contact with an exposed-conductive-part.

 

[333rocky333]

what make is that fan, please

 

[333rocky333]

.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

BTW I assumed the poll question was rhetorical.

 

[stillp]

It is marked as being double insulated.

Do you agree?

No, I don't agree. It is marked as being Class II equipment.

From 61140:
7.3 Class II equipment
Equipment with
– basic insulation as provision for basic protection, and
– supplementary insulation as provision for fault protection,
or in which
– basic and fault protection are provided by reinforced insulation.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OK. it's marked as Class II equipment.

– basic insulation as provision for basic protection, and
– supplementary insulation as provision for fault protection,​

Not as far as I can see.

– basic and fault protection are provided by reinforced insulation.​

Not as far as I can see.