Downlight replacement - does entire house need to be done?

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Hello,

I have some repeatedly troublesome downlights in my house. They keep failing (I understand why - oxidation on GU5.3 pins and rubbish mating connectors). So, I decided to get them replaced.

I asked an electrician to replace only the troublesome ones. He had a look around the house, and said that he needs to do the entire place, as there are lights elsewhere (that aren't giving trouble) that aren't compliant (wrong junction boxes) and also aren't fire-rated. He said that it would be prudent for all fittings to be fire rated. The issue is that the floors are all concrete (upstairs too), with suspended plasterboard beneath. My understanding was that fire-rated fittings are only needed when they are cut into a fire barrier. The plasterboard isn't the fire barrier - the concrete slab is pretty good at that. I can see why the upstairs fittings, with the holes going in to the loft should be fire rated, though.

Anyway, my query isn't really about fire-rating. He says that he's unable to do only the lights I would like done, as he's an NICEIC approved contractor, and can't do any work at all knowing that other parts of the installation aren't compliant with BS7671:2011.

Is that true? Is it the case that any approved contractor must put right everything that is non-compliant, or they can't do anything at all? It seems improbable to me, but I'm no expert.

Thanks a lot for reading.
 
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From your description, fire rated ones are not needed.
However you could have them fitted if you want.

As for not doing any work unless the whole installation is compliant - total tripe. He presumably doesn't do very much work at all, as most older installations won't comply in some way.

The lampholders usually fail due to overheating, caused by people using dichroic lamps instead of those with aluminium reflectors.
 
No, it's not true.

You seem to know more than he does.

NICEIC are good at making up rules, though that may not be the case here.
 
as he's an NICEIC approved contractor, and can't do any work at all knowing that other parts of the installation aren't compliant with BS7671:2011.

Is that true? Is it the case that any approved contractor must put right everything that is non-compliant, or they can't do anything at all? It seems improbable to me, but I'm no expert.

He is talking out of his NICY arse, of course an electrician can do work on installations knowing existing parts are non-compliant to current regulations without having to correct everything, go source another electrician.
Fair enough he has spotted noncompliances and has informed you, that is what I would do but I would not hold you to ransom on it! Just remark upon it in any documents I leave and leave any work I do compliant!
 
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Downstairs you don't need fire rated as the concrete is the barrier, and upstairs you don't as you don't need the where there is no habitable space above.

Whats wrong with the junction boxes?
 
Thanks to you all for the comments. I didn't think it would be the case that absolutely everything needs to be brought into compliance with the current standard. Taking the logic to its conclusion, everything in the house is connected together at the consumer unit, which also connects to the national network. So, he'd need to 'fix' the rest of the wiring in the house, as well as the entire country. And I think there is also a DC connection to the continent, so he'd need to do the rest of Europe, and beyond, too. He's gonna be pretty busy ;)

On the connections, this is what he said:
'Every lighting point inspected was connected by means of terminal strips (connector blocks). This is non-compliant and must be re-terminated with something such as the Click Flow'.

I can understand why he wouldn't be able to replace the bad fittings using connection blocks, but he's saying that he'd need to replace the connection blocks on every fitting in the house.

Thanks again - I appreciate the straightforward answers.
 
'Every lighting point inspected was connected by means of terminal strips (connector blocks). This is non-compliant and must be re-terminated with something such as the Click Flow
If those terminals are just hanging about on the wires, then not compliant.
However easily fixed by adding a suitable enclosure, such as: http://www.toolstation.com/shop/d190/sd3071/p49718
which in most cases can be fitted without disconnecting any of the existing wiring.

The click flow item is also suitable, although it costs far more, and would require that all of the existing terminals were removed and the wires adjusted in length and reconnected to the new connectors, all of which would take a significant amount of time.
 
On the connections, this is what he said:
'Every lighting point inspected was connected by means of terminal strips (connector blocks). This is non-compliant and must be re-terminated with something such as the Click Flow'.
That is not true, they can be made within connector blocks, but these must be enclosed, so accidental contact cannot be made to the uninsulated parts and the cable should be gripped to avoid stress to the terminations. This enclosure and terminals must be accessible for maintenance, inspection and testing.
As a side note click flow connectors as handy as they can be, suitability would depend on how your circuit is configured or alteration would be required.
Simply fitting the existing terminal blocks into a choc box (providing the connectors are not bulky) would suffice!
I can understand why he wouldn't be able to replace the bad fittings using connection blocks, but he's saying that he'd need to replace the connection blocks on every fitting in the house.
In this case/scenario the electrician only needs to make his work compliant (the work you have asked him to do) Like you have hinted on, if the electrician did change all the non-compliances on this circuit, he could discover other non-compliances on other circuits, so would he then suggest that that work needs to be brought up to current standards?

He was spotted that you have non-compliances, elsewhere (this not unusual). and informed you of this, it maybe in your best interests to have potential dangerous connections made safe, but that in this case, is your call.
He cannot state that the whole circuit and parts, needs to be brought up to the current regulations, he can remark upon it and document it on any certs or reports handed over to you.
He can refuse to work on it, if his concerns are that great, but that is his call.
I wont knock the guy for spotting non-conformities and making you aware of them, but to insist that it all must be updated is a work of fiction.
 
The click flow item is also suitable

In my opinion only the Click Flows that have the cord grip on the socket end are suitable, otherwise there is potential strain on the terminations. There are Click Flows with cord grips on the 3-pin sockets (plus they require a tool to open unlike the ones without the cord grip) but they are much harder to find.
 
Hello again,

He's specified the CT101C at £1.60 + VAT each. It looks ok, and he's not overcharging for the part (I think). I'm happy with the proposed solution for the fittings that I need to be replaced. Just not with the statement that every one needs to be done.

Cheers.
 
He has tried to fleece you, find another electrician!

The Click Flow connectors are a bit nicer should you need to disconnect the fitting later on, but a choc. block in a suitable box will be fine.
 

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