downside up?

[adamu]

I am going to put a vertical radiator in my kitchen in a gap between two doors, the floor in there is tile over concrete, so obviously the pipework is going to be a drop from the ceiling above it, rather than do a full drop to meet the valves on the bottom of the rad, can I mount the rad the other way up only requiring very short drops of pipework which I think will look alot neater....anyone got any glaring reasons why this cannot/should not be done?

incidentally, this is the rad (the 595x1800) :
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/produ...14&entryFlag=false&PRODID=8020146&paintCatId=

thanks in advance for the help!

 

[ricarbo]

It will only get hot at the top, that's why not!!!!!
It would be ok if the flow is connected to the bottom and the return to the top, in fact 10% better than standard.

 

[adamu]

ok, I may well be missing something here but in that case why does a standard rad not only get hot at the bottom, surely in a pressurised system the water is pushed through all of the 'ways' (sorry for inventing a technical term!) inside the rad, not knowing if it is upside down or not??? I'm sure I remember the old cast-iron school radiators having their valves at the top (or did everything just seem bigger then...)

BTW please don't think that I am trying to be a smartarse and don't believe what you say, I know enough to know that something usually gets in the way of what you want to achieve, requiring 'slight' changes to most plans, and it is only a plan at this point...

I ponder on as I sit shivering in my old house with barely adequate central-heating.....

 

[John.B]

It's all to do with physics, hot water rises to the top and as it cools it then falls. If you connect the pipes to the two top tappings the water as ricarbo says will only heat the top. It will take the easiest route which is across the top of the rad.
School rads were fed with flow from the top but return taken from opposite bottom side.

 

[chrishutt]

It would be ok if the flow is connected to the bottom and the return to the top

Try engaging brain before typing fingers, ricarbo. It's the other way round.

 

[Softus]

To answer your question about standard rads....

I've never (consciously) thought about this before, but at first thought it seems kind of obvious. Water flows in from one end, at the bottom, then the pressure of the incoming water acts upon the water in the radiator, in two different directions - both upwards and 'alongwards'.

If there were no temperature difference then the resultant flow would be same in both directions. However, the incoming water is hotter than the water inside the rad, so there is a convection effect - this acts to increase the flow upwards and lessen it alongwards. Hot water then flows easily along the top of the rad, leaving the colder water underneath.

The flow of water out of the rad takes water from both directions, thus encouraging the flow of water downwards (through the 'ways'). This gradually distributes the hot water downwards, and thereby heats the entire radiator.

There is a also some effect from conduction over the rad panels.

 

[John.B]

Like I say it is physics, not rocket science. We were taught it in first year apprenticship in plumbing. The old fashioned systems long before pumps were used were all done on gravity installed by real tradesmen. The flow pipes had to rise to the top of the building then fall all the way back to the boiler. If you got your falls wrong then the system would not work.
In the 50's and 60's normal floor standing boilers had radiator circuits working using gravity not pumps.

 

[adamu]

The flow of water out of the rad takes water from both directions, thus encouraging the flow of water downwards (through the 'ways'). This gradually distributes the hot water downwards, and thereby heats the entire radiator.

There is a also some effect from conduction over the rad panels.

So... what you say is that although it would take longer to heat up it would eventually do so, this was my thinking, but I have to be honest, if the general consensus of opinion is that it is no good, then I will follow a more conventional route I guess - an ugly pipe drop!

cheers for the input though fellas, any more for any more?

 

[John.B]

Do n't think it will heat up, may be wrong, stranger things have happened but best bet is to drop pipes. Is it possible to feed from other side of the wall and drill through, or is that not possible due to outside wall or lounge, dining room etc. Just a thought

 

[Softus]

If a customer really didn't want to see dropped pipes, then I would box them in, but I guess you can't do that because you said the gap was between two doorways.

Or, you could panel them in, and mount the rad on the panel...

 

[chrishutt]

What's the problem? You only need to drop one pipe (the return) and you can conceal that behind the radiator (use 8mm or 10mm tube). All you will see is the two pipes dropping to top of rad from ceiling.

 

[JPC]

never assume anything chris!!

it might be a see thru rad !?

cant u take the feed from somewhere else ? drill thru a wall etc ?

cant u chase out the wall and bury the pipes and replaster (i get to do more and more of that for fussy punters !) ?

if its a solid rad like chris said..have them come down behind the rad and u wont see them anyway.

the principles of putting the rad tails at the top tell me it would not work...but u never know ...maybe.

 

[adamu]

It is not a see-thru rad, just a cheapish vertical one, chasing out the walls is an option but I have only just re-skimmed and it has all been decorated - yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing!

cheers for all the ideas, they have given me something to think about, I will probably try the method in can only assume must be used in Cuba - cheers chrishut...

thanks again - ad. ('fussy punter' of my own work)

 

[chrishutt]

it might be a see thru rad

Well I've never seen a "see thru" rad, made of glass presumably? Perhaps you could give details.

By the way, if the top tappings are pointing vertically up (as with most towel rails), you could run the return drop down inside the radiator (best to use 10mm or 15mm plastic pipe in this case.

 

[adamu]

ref - 'see thru rad' I assume you mean the type with thin columns which you can see between? Can't see much aesthetic value of a glass rad with a load of black gunk flowing round inside it!