Drivers, you need to sign this......

[esra_ptrap]

Softus Wrote:

It seems that you're not coping with the failure to force everyone to adopt your opinions. And make no mistake, they're no more than that - just opinions.

Not at all, I would just like to have you with me in the lifeboat rather than stuck at the bottom of the atlantic in your dinner jacket because you wouldn't believe that the ship was sinking ... Some people need to feel the water lapping at their ankles first I guess.

Some of what I said, I agree, is my opinion/tongue-in-cheek speculation though much of what I said is documented fact. You only believe it to be my opinion because you have not seen the facts (or have chosen not to believe them of course)

There is much to discover about the route this goverment (lead by the US) is taking with regard to "citizen management" for those who either have an interest or are concerned about the long-term implications.

I have had a deep interest in this subject for many years (since my uni days actually) but have only developed a concern about the long-term implications more recently based on what I have discovered and the impact of fairly immature technology.

If you generally want to understand this complex issue and see where I'm coming from you ain't gonna do it here ... Try this as a starter for 10.

http://www.no2id.net/

If you do get to read some of the stuff on this site and others, post back whether you would be happy for all of this information to be held about you (a law abiding citizen) and what you think it will be used for.

Of course, if you genuinely believe that your life is safe in the hands of a US/British government and that they will always look out for your best interests, then you need look no further

 

[masona]

Tony B lair speech in 2002: "Instead of wasting hundreds of millions of pounds on compulsory ID cards, let that money provide thousands more police officers instead."

 

[Softus]

Of course, if you genuinely believe that your life is safe in the hands of a US/British government and that they will always look out for your best interests, then you need look no further

It's a pity that you had to write this at the end, because the rest of your post was excellent.

Notwithstanding that, I happily follow the URL you provided, in case it contains useful new information.

 

[mlb3c]

topic went awry.....but there is a valid point to be made. I think that all of us to different degrees have gotten a bit nonchalant in our attitudes when it comes to our respective governments and the choices that we all make on a daily basis that may not make a 'hill of beans' impact right off the bat. Most all of us are in the system....and as long as we are, it is a managable database....they enforce their policies, we abide....if we dont, then we face the consequences of whatever they can put out there that makes life difficult in the first place. It's so much easier to "control" people who are convinced that it is in their best interest to be stamped, and id(ed) and "led" so that they dont have to take responsibility when it goes down the cr*pper. and it will. ya know, it has occured to me that in a personal way, most of us, wouldnt invite someone into our homes, give them carte blanche to any and everything in our personal lives and "know" that everything is gonna be ok...no harm done. There is harm...
freedom. it isnt free......you have to hunt it down, nail it to the wall, and claim it as yours and protect it with a vengeance.

 

[Softus]

The petition is gathering momentum. At the time of me writing this, at the current rate of signing the total will be nigh on 2m.

IMHO it's becoming a self-fuelling hysteria - the more publicity the petition gets the more people there are who'll think that they're missing out on something if they don't sign it.

It's a pity that general elections don't generate the same motivation, 'cos that's the right time to influence the government's actions by limiting its majority.

 

[ellal]

Perhaps you feel that insulting the person whom you want to agree with you is a successful ploy. That all depends on what you consider to be a successful outcome.

Funnily enough, it is usually you that starts using insults in a topic - either because you can't hold an argument, or as you say you couldn't care less and ridicule those who do!

But of course your derisory 'comments' don't register as insults to you do they....

Your continual use of 'paranoia' to counter many people's genuine concerns about the direction this government is going shows just about as much contempt as they do regarding vital issues...!

On this issue you may choose to 'bury your head in the sand', but increasing people are not, despite you trying to justify the numbers as mere 'hysteria'..

Personally I wish that the same attention was given to the NIR by those who see this 'road pricing' as an attack on their freedoms, rather than the underlying threats - but hey, if this is the thing that will kick the UK populace out of it's 'lethargy', then I won't complain!

 

[Softus]

Funnily enough, it is usually you that starts using insults in a topic - either because you can't hold an argument...

...which has never happened...

...or as you say you couldn't care less...

...which I have never said...

and ridicule those who do!

If what you write is ridiculous, then don't blame the messenger for pointing it out.

But of course your derisory 'comments' don't register as insults to you do they.

Well I think they do, but I'm content to disagree with you on that point, as I am with any point - I don't insist that you agree with me, which is a perspective that would benefit you.

Your continual use of 'paranoia' to counter many people's genuine concerns about the direction this government is going shows just about as much contempt as they do regarding vital issues...!

Hm. I certainly accused Ionkontrol of being paranoid, and I doubt that I've used the word more than three times in more than 7000 posts, so it's hardly something that you can sanely argue is "continual".

You, however, have accused two posters of being paranoid, on this topic alone.

On this issue you may choose to 'bury your head in the sand', but increasing people are not, despite you trying to justify the numbers as mere 'hysteria'.

I don't use the word lightly, and it's likely to be the first time I've accused anyone on the forum of this.

My reasoning isn't just based on an observation of the numbers, it's the things people write and the manner in which they write them. Far from burying my head in anything, I'm standing back to view the bigger picture, not obsessing about one extremist vision of a potential change in law that is, frankly, unimplementable.

Personally I wish that the same attention was given to the NIR by those who see this 'road pricing' as an attack on their freedoms, rather than the underlying threats - but hey, if this is the thing that will kick the UK populace out of it's 'lethargy', then I won't complain!

Fine - you're entitled to hold and to voice that preference, but you aren't extending that right to anyone who disagrees with you. You'll learn as you get older.

 

[esra_ptrap]

Steady Softus, I do the rants

 

[esra_ptrap]

Oh, and nobody's mentioned those nosey gits with clipboards who can demand to look around our homes so that they can charge us more council tax for any improvements we've made ... And we get criminal records when we refuse and set the poodle on them ... Hmmmnnnn

 

[kevplumb]

or the plod when you don't invite them in

**** still cost me tho you might have a point there esra

 

[empip]

After all HMG's huff concerning identity and it's vulnerability ... The custodians are found less then wanting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6349041.stm

...Ministers have apologised for a mix-up which led to bank and personal details of thousands of pensioners being sent to the wrong addresses.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) said it would try to trace all of those affected - as many as 26,000...

 

[esra_ptrap]

With huge leaps forward in technology the one area which has remained constant and will do so ad-infinitum is ... People

The IT systems can be as sophisticated and secure as we like but will always be vulnerable to abuse whilst human beings play a part.

Herein lies the danger to us as individuals when every aspect of our lives are recorded.

 

[mlb3c]

did you just now notice that you were not alone on the planet?

 

[esra_ptrap]

It does seem to be more obvious now that we are unofficially the 51st state of the USA, which many people would prefer to becoming a more integrated part of Europe ... But that's another debate in the looming

 

[Softus]

a URL

So what? So someone cocked up? Is there any mistake that could be made by someone in charge of data that isn't going to be labelled as "appalling"?

FFS, get over it.