Earthing a water pipe??

[Jadele]

You're right Jad, but you can't knock a man for being interested in a subject and wanting to know can ya?

Not at all

 

[EFLImpudence]

if I have a house with all copper water pipes and I attach a bonding clamp and a 10mm cable to that and the MET, surely you have just earthed all your water pipes

You will have but -

If they are not already earthed by the ground itself OR by connections to the installation earth (MET), then it is better NOT to earth them at all - i.e. leave them floating, not earthed.

If they are not already earthed by the ground itself BUT ARE earthed by connections to the installation earth (MET), then it does not really matter whether you bond them to the installation earth (MET) or not.

If they are already earthed by the ground itself, then it is necessary to bond (join electrically) them to the installation earth (MET).
This is because the ground itself may be at a different potential from the installation earth (MET) so bonding them will equalise the potential.
This is desirable when a fault occurs and the installation earth (MET) may rise to 230V wrt the true earth (the ground)

(not that they needed it because they were already earthed by the metal pipes)

I don't understand that bit.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Look up PME and read up on that.

What the {whatever} has the type of supply earthing got to do with this?

So now its really about earthing that piece of pipework in the kitchen or not and there are various schools of thought on that within this thread

Please don't pretend that all of those schools of thought are equally valid.

 

[Jadele]

What the {whatever} has the type of supply earthing got to do with this?



Please don't pretend that all of those schools of thought are equally valid.

You're a total d*ck you are. It has everything to do with it with regard to the more recent discussion but you wouldn't know that as you probably only read and remember things you think you can be "clever" about and both options are valid in light of the fact that you have never seen nor tested the install you two bit to**er.

Your posts are rarely helpful just smart ass, wrong or off topic. Its a shame as you put a lot of effort in to your posts (sometimes) and on occasion post great stuff that in the past I have enjoyed reading. However you are to focused on brinkmanship rather than sensible discussion, probably in the mistaken belief that people sit at home "thinking wow what a clever guy he is". Sorry to burst your bubble but reading some of the stuff you write - not in this thread so much, this is fairly good for you - its not the case although indeed you maybe right to some extent as you clearly have a merry band of followers. Most of the time though you really have no input of any value and are now on the ignore list. So don't waste your time replying to me again I won't see it. That said you may want to reply so your fans can congratulate you on probably another unhelpful load of drivel.

 

[aptsys]

LOL this is still going. Look up PME and read up on that. The thing that you raised though originally is not to do with that though as like you say the incomer is plastic. So now its really about earthing that piece of pipework in the kitchen or not and there are various schools of thought on that within this thread

Bonding is not earthing. You do not bond metallic pipework to protect against a damaged cable rubbing up against the pipes - that condition is no different to you grabbing hold of the damaged cable. Bonding is there to create an equipotential zone within the electrical installation.

 

[Jadele]

Bonding is not earthing. You do not bond metallic pipework to protect against a damaged cable rubbing up against the pipes - that condition is no different to you grabbing hold of the damaged cable. Bonding is there to create an equipotential zone within the electrical installation.

I never said it was so not sure why you quote me there?

 

[aptsys]

I never said it was so not sure why you quote me there?

So now its really about earthing that piece of pipework in the kitchen or not and there are various schools of thought on that within this thread

 

[Jadele]

I don't say earthing and bonding are the same there and its all getting a bit pedantic to be honest. Bottom line is OSG say it should be bonded unless certain criteria are met and can be confirmed, meaning its safer to do it than not . People here disagree without seeing it, which is fine I may add that's their opinion.

 

[aptsys]

I don't say earthing and bonding are the same there and its all getting a bit pedantic to be honest. Bottom line is OSG say it should be bonded unless certain criteria are met and can be confirmed, meaning its safer to do it than not . People here disagree without seeing it, which is fine I may add that's their opinion.

The OSG is not the regs though. You should be competent to understand what the regs mean. Why would you want to 'earth' a bit of pipe that is not going to introduce a potential from outside the installation? Do you earth door handles, cutlery, scrim beads?

I don't say earthing and bonding are the same there and its all getting a bit pedantic to be honest. Bottom line is OSG say it should be bonded unless certain criteria are met and can be confirmed, meaning its safer to do it than not . People here disagree without seeing it, which is fine I may add that's their opinion.

So now its really about earthing that piece of pipework in the kitchen or not and there are various schools of thought on that within this thread

Make up your mind!

 

[John D v2.0]

OSG say it should be bonded unless certain criteria are met and can be confirmed, meaning its safer to do it than not .

I don't think that logically follows from your premise.
The only conclusion I can draw is that it is safer to do it when not required, than not do it when it is required.

And if you want to see pedantry in action, try watching a jointing team connecting a new 3 phase cutout to a live incomer. They are so pedantic it's unreal.

 

[Jadele]

@aptsys I understand the OSG is not regs and neither of them have to be followed as neither are law but its good advice especially when you have never seen the installation and therefore is the best advice you could give on here.

Please don't get like ban with taking it too far. The metal pipework is likely to be run with and not separated from cables and should a line fault to the metal pipework occur due to a pinched cable for example then as you rightly put the 'earth' path to that pipe will aid in the ADS on the faulty circuit. If it wasn't earthed then that pipe would be live so imo its better to have it. To indulge your derisory examples its extreamly unlikely these will have contact with a live cable.

I think most of the confusion here is because I for one am trying to keep it in context to the original post and with the actual definitions of the terms and with the deviations of the topic which I agree at points reads a little confusing.

@ John - I agree

 

[John D v2.0]

I think most of the confusion here is because I for one am trying to keep it in context to the original post

The irony here is that the original post was clearly, concisely, and correctly answered by none other than ban all sheds in the second reply to this topic.

I'm no fan whatsoever of his bedside manner nor helpfulness, but on factual matters he is rarely incorrect, and apologises immediately when proven wrong.

 

[aptsys]

The metal pipework is likely to be run with and not separated from cables and should a line fault to the metal pipework occur due to a pinched cable for example then as you rightly put the 'earth' path to that pipe will aid in the ADS on the faulty circuit. If it wasn't earthed then that pipe would be live so imo its better to have it. To indulge your derisory examples its extreamly unlikely these will have contact with a live cable.

Cables are double insulated. As said earlier - do not make something part of the electrical installation that doesn't need to be. If you do as you propose, you would now have the opposing issue whereby if there is a fault with the electrical installation (earth fault, lost neutral etc), the pipework could become live where it wouldn't have before.

The regs already account for installation methods, mechanical support and separation of electrical and other services.

 

[Jadele]

The irony here is that the original post was clearly, concisely, and correctly answered by none other than ban all sheds in the second reply to this topic.

I'm no fan whatsoever of his bedside manner nor helpfulness, but on factual matters he is rarely incorrect, and apologises immediately when proven wrong.

I accept your thoughts but disagree

 

[Jadele]

Cables are double insulated. As said earlier - do not make something part of the electrical installation that doesn't need to be. If you do as you propose, you would now have the opposing issue whereby if there is a fault with the electrical installation (earth fault, lost neutral etc), the pipework could become live where it wouldn't have before.

The regs already account for installation methods, mechanical support and separation of electrical and other services.

Good points but I would counter by saying that those faults are less likely to occur. Perhaps in a new build property or anywhere you are fairly certain the electrical systems are installed as per the regs I would agree its better not to do it.