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Eaves height on a single storey extension under PD

Discussion in 'Building Regulations and Planning Permission' started by ey143, 17 Oct 2014.

  1. ey143

    ey143

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    Could someone please clarify:

    1. When building a rear single storey extension which is NOT within 2m of the neighbouring boundary, what is the maximum permitted eves height? The interactive planning portal only says that eves height can be 3m when within 2m of the boundary but rather confusingly does not say what it can be when not within 2m.

    2. Page 4 of the technical guidance document http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PDforhouseholders_TechnicalGuidance.pdf indicates that the HIGHEST part of natural ground next to the extension can be used (where some people interpret that on a sloping land you use the lowest (more detrimental) part. How "next to the extension" should the higher ground heigh be?

    This was never an issue for me before but I had one architectural technologist tell me that my ceiling heigh in my rear extension wont be more than 2.2m where as my existing house is 2.8m and will suffer an ugly drop. My rear garden slopes slightly upwards away from the house and I was hoping I can use that is a reasonable excuse to argue that we can have higher eves.

    I've had so many meetings with the council already that I dont want to discuss this one with them too. All of our development will be under PD.

    Thanks.
     
  2. tony1851

    tony1851

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    1. If it's more than 2m from the boundary, there is no restriction on the height of the eaves as such, but no part of the build must be more than 4m high. So if you had a flat roof, 4m would be your max. eaves height.
    With a pitched roof, obviously your eaves would come in lower than that.

    2. the height is measured from the highest point of the natural ground adjacent to the extension. So if the ground rises away from the rear of the house, the height is measured from the furthest-out wall of the extension - if that makes sense.
     
  3. ey143

    ey143

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    Thank you so much for this, both answers are exactly what I wanted to hear. Is there anything that can support what you've confirmed, in writing somewhere on the internet so I can show this to my architect I was thinking of going with and the council who previously made a point about this on an existing proposal?

    Cheers.
     
  4. ey143

    ey143

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    Tony hi,

    Can I please clarify with you, would your answer be any different if we are doing an 8m deep extension (and not 4m) under the temp PD rules for prior neighbour notification scheme?

    Also I emailed your point to the old architect I am about to use and here is what he wrote:

    "Heights - it is 3m to the eaves from ground level at that point regardless of the boundary (and 4m overall height at the abutment from ground level at that point if a pitched roof regardless of the boundary). SEE PAGE 11 for flat roofs.
    Please accept this as definite.

    So, the existing ground floor to ceiling is 2.7m. The height of the floor above ground level was about 400mm and the depth thickness of a warm deck flat roof about 300mm which makes 3.4m.

    The planning officer will visit site and take dimensions so I have to be accurate.
    The way to overcome this is by raising the ground level by moving some soil from the end of the garden (out of sight) and then cosmetically disguising it so that we lose the say 300mm and then having a lower ceiling in the extension to say 2.4.5m which is quite common this giving us 2.85 (or a variation of that theme). "

    What are your thoughts on this, is he still wrong, even though he told me to accept his point?
     
  5. tony1851

    tony1851

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    The depth out of the extension makes no difference to the height limitations.

    With due respect to your architect, I believe he is incorrect on the matter of height. If the extension is at least 2m away from the boundary, there is no defined maximum height of the eaves in the p.d. regulations.

    Paragraph A1(g) restricts the height of the eaves to 3m, but only if the extension is within 2m of the boundary.

    If your extension is more than 2m from the boundary (and is single storey) the only restriction is on maximum height, which is 4m (as stated in para. A1(e)). So if you build a flat-roof extension, your eaves must be no more than 4m above natural ground level.

    In practice, this would mean that the top of your warm flat roof will be max 4m above grond level, and your ceiling (presumably) 300 below that.
    I can't see why your architect suggests faffing about with soil to raise ground level - that's unlawful anyway and planning officers are wise to that one.
     
  6. ey143

    ey143

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    Thanks.

    I want to go with your view on this but I need some point of reference to correct his view. Are there any applications I can refer to on the Internet etc.

    Also if you say the eaves height can be a max 4m then that will surely mean that the height of the overall extension will be more than 4m after you take into account the insulation, external roof etc, and anything over 4m in height is not then PD?
     
  7. tony1851

    tony1851

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    This is the Technical Guidance on interpretation of the p.d. rules:

    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PDforhouseholders_TechnicalGuidance.pdf

    Parts of the Guidance are not perfect, but it is unequivocal in most respects. Page 4 has definitions, including 'height', and makes it clear that you measure from the highest part of the ground adjacent to an extension.

    *There are a number of appeal decisions which confirm this; they are on the 'Planning Jungle' site, but you would probably have to join to see them).

    A diagram showing how eaves height is measured to a flat roof is shown on page 9.
     
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  8. ey143

    ey143

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    Thanks Tony. He has now confirmed the same and even gone as far as apologising, even after the local council confirmed the same as you.

    What is the normal and average internal ceiling heights of most homes and what is considered "high ceilings" in your opinion (exclude those large mansions or castles etc).

    We have 2.8m, is that above average height?
     
  9. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

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    2.4m is typically what all new builds would be and any house from the 70s onwards is likely to be and IMO is adequate for any extension unless the room is particularly big or a higher height is easily achieved.

    Older properties have higher of course.

    I would say 2.8m is prolly a bit above average but its an arbitrary figure really.
     
  10. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

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    BTW, I would be extremely weary of employing anyone who you have to prove what the rules are.
     
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  11. ey143

    ey143

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    I would agree. This guy is a structural engineer and been submitting plans to the local council for 40 years and came recommended by the council as someone who knows his stuff. Seems to have made a hiccup on this one. Have checked local council planning web sites and he has generally had a lot of approvals.

    Compared to my last architect who drew grate plans but was clueless on planning this guy is an improvement, but very old school. Does everything by hand.
     
  12. tony1851

    tony1851

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    So he uses the 1851 method of drawing, as I do :LOL:

    There's nothing inherently wrong in doing these by hand, though it can be a little time consuming if drawings need amendments.

    But hand-drawn or CAD, the drawing is only a cartoon and a means to an end. Some people who do hand-drawn get too precious about them.
     
  13. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

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    You specialise in the cartoon look tony ......

    :p
     
  14. cjard

    cjard

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    So, just rub out the scale and write "1:99.6" if you want to make it a bit smaller ;)

    Lot easier than redoing all the lines
     
  15. ey143

    ey143

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    I appear to have missed the last few replies here, not sure why I didnt receive the email notification.

    I consider the three of you to be amongst the more knowledgeable on this forum for your contibutions to some of my questions in the last few weeks on planning related matters.

    Could I please ask for your gidance on the following:

    As explained above, I have parted ways with my previous RIBA architect and have spoken to a few local ones who are not RIBA but architectural tecnologists. In fact this guy must be in his 60s and as I said, does everything by hand. I find him to have a very big ego in that he doesnt like me questioning him and he has reminded me of his knowledge a lot. After 3 emails regarding the eaves height as guided by tony, he finally apologised to me and corrected himself.

    What bothers me is that he seems to think thats its ok to say "as we've discussed many times before" which really bugs me as he is not clear. He has also quoted 5% for project planning in addition to about £3,700 for the design of a 8m deep single storey extension, front elevation changes and lots of internal changes. He is also a qualified structural engineer but is proposing to charge £95 per beam. The planning application will have to be done in three stages (this is correct and the way I need to proceed) - 1 will be PD for the rear, 1 planning app for the front elevation and 1 planning app to be done later when the PD has been built....all hand drawn.

    The question is, after having had a good architect who was lousy at local planning rules, I am feeling slightly uncomfortable about going with another guy who seems to be patronising and egotistic. On the flip side, he probably seems me as someone who is dithering and taking his time with multiple questions without commissioning him.

    How do you all treat such potential clients and do the fees seem about right? I cant afford to make mistakes with my next guy and have my PD refused again. He doesnt want to propose a balcony as part of my planning app after we take the existing one down to meet PD rules....because he knows better and doesnt want refusal stats against his name.
     
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