Electric Car Infrastructure

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I was thinking. The way the price of fossil fuels is going up, there is bound to be an increase in the ownership of electric cars. Now I know hydrogen fuel cells are the way forwards, but let's assume for now that the main seller is the good old battery-powered electric car.

Let's assume the daily electricity requirements of an average household of 4 people are:

4 x 10 minute 9.5kW showers = 6.3kWh
30 minutes of cooking in an electric oven = 1.5kWh
Assorted other electricity use = 2kWh

Total = about 10kWh/day.

Now, this family buys 2 electric cars, and commute for roughly 1 hour a day each (30 minutes each way). Now, an average Mondeo-sized car uses around 30bhp for driving along a straight and level road at 60mph or so. Whilst the electric car may have regenerative braking etc., remember it is considerably heavier than it's petrol equivalent so we will take 30bhp as our figure. That's about 22kW.

So, car electricity usage:

2 x 1hour x 22kW = 44kWh/day

Now, if everyone is to drive around in electric cars, the average household electricity requirement is going to increase from 10 to 54 kWh per day!

Can the national grid cope with this? Are there any plans to increase the number of power stations (let alone nuclear stations) to meet this increased requirement? Can we foresee a programme of "grid rewiring"?

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if we all woke up tomorrow and someone had replaced our smelly noisy fossil-fuel engines with batteries, invertor and motor. Especially if I get my flying car. But I think the government needs to take this seriously, produce a plan, and tell us all what it is.
 
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you forget, our electric cars may use that much, but they will not be being charged in the day, so they will only be charged at night, as demand is low at night anyway (believe it or not) yes the national grid could quite easily cope
 
I was wondering. If I got myself an electric car and fitted a deisel powered generator in the boot. Could I run that on Vegetable Oil without paying the Tax. I wouldn't use the diesel for transport, just for generating the electric.
 
Oh, even better, if they were recharged from tidal, wind-farm and solar electricity too. :D
 
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TexMex said:
I was wondering. If I got myself an electric car and fitted a deisel powered generator in the boot. Could I run that on Vegetable Oil without paying the Tax. I wouldn't use the diesel for transport, just for generating the electric.

Well, I suppose the same regulations would apply as for gensets. Dunno what those are, but I am sure someone will.

Yes, I guess if you are charging those 44kWh over an 8 hour period at night you are only drawing 5.5kW per house... I had thought that during this mornings boring presentation (where I was thinking about this!) but forgot before I got back to my desk! :D
 
Trouble is, the government will always have the last laugh. Once they start loosing revenue, they will just move the goal posts. We could all go out tomorrow and build ourselves wind generators to run our electric cars, and Voila, a new Electricity Generating Tax would be introduced.

They've got us by the short and curleys. Do you remember when Diesel was about 3/4 the price of petrol. Everyone starts looking at diesel for road cars. Compare the prices now!
 
breezer said:
you forget, our electric cars may use that much, but they will not be being charged in the day, so they will only be charged at night, as demand is low at night anyway (believe it or not) yes the national grid could quite easily cope

I wonder what the maximum capacity of the national grid actually is, expressed as a percentage of what we actually use on average? For example, if by some freak co-incidence every single kettle in the country were to be switched on at the same time, what would happen?
 
Yes, what is the "diversity" factor they apply? Do they assume that people have their dinner at different times for one?

I suppose with a national grid the diversity factor could be much larger than with a house installation.

I know we trade electricity with Europe, many years ago some bright spark realised that France is an hour fast so they probably have their electric requirement peaks an hour in front. Thus a cable or two was laid under the English Channel and the peak generated power in each country can decrease slightly.

I remember there being (what I presume to be) a myth that the national grid has noticeable peaks after popular programmes as people switch on their kettles. :D
 
AdamW said:
I remember there being (what I presume to be) a myth that the national grid has noticeable peaks after popular programmes as people switch on their kettles. :D

its worse, they have a tv mag so they know what time what programme is on.

but think about it, what do you do in a commercial break, go to the loo or put kettle on
 
Well, I'm a water drinker so I don't really ever use my kettle unless some caffeine addicts are round :D

But, I suppose this would still cause a minor increase in the power requirements of a water pumping station.

Whatever I do, I don't watch the adverts!!! Well, not consciously...
 
Where do you get the idea that 'we' will be driving around in anything apart from worn out shoes ?

BTW .. Times today ... 'Shareholders force rethink of MPs' FREE airport passes perk' BAA gives pass worth £1300 to each of 847(£11M) MPs,Peers and MEPs can be used at 7 airports ... I wonder who gets to use those then ... worth a few bob on the side !! ...Oh my god, I give up, there is more ... free parking, etc, etc, etc, etc, All ON TOP of pay and allowances ....... 57.7p per mile using own car to 20,000m then 26.6p mile (bit of the old 'clocking' useful here).... bicycle !!! 20p per mile ! MP's spouse and kids under 18 .. 30 single free journeys twixt Londinium and constituency per annum.

THE MIND BOGGLES .... and OAP left to wither on the vine ...aaaargh !!
No wonder they jack up fuel prices .. 30 mpg 1st 20k miles £17.31 per gal !! How in sh*t do they work that out then ... oh forgot Sparkodia at 55 mpg diesel £31.74 per gal !!!

If that is deemed normal ... then think of all the directors of large companies up and down the land, must be par for the course, If you buy the Daily Mail then shove it in the bin and get wise !!
Is there any money left over at all ?
P
 
Sadly and always will be, we are a very small cog in a big wheel.
 
pipme said:
30 single free journeys twixt Londinium and constituency per annum.

Ah, you see on this one, the joke's on them... No MPs actually LIVE in their constituency! ;)

I am still trying to fathom how it costs 20p a mile to run a bicycle... Now, assume JP cycles to work one day (don't laugh, it could happen!). What is the distance between Downing Street and Westminster? You can walk it in less than 10 minutes, so about half a mile I reckon.

Assume that he stops off for 4 pies along the way... I am looking for the minimum case here. London prices, say £1.50 for a Ginster's.

That gives us a grand total of £12 per mile to run a bicycle. MINIMUM. That doesn't include replacing buckled wheels, or any small dogs and children he might squash along the way. Nor any costs incurred by punching people (the only thing he has ever done that earned respect from me!).

So I reckon that 20p a mile is very reasonable for an MP to ride a bicycle. Provided they are JP. ;)
 
MP's salaries and ex's look quite tame compared to the Brussels gravy train.

Can someone explain how they can justify the likes of Mandelsons salary, etc being tax free?

And also the £100K pension (also tax free). Talk about taking the p***.
 
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