Electric Shower CCT

[industryspark]

personally i would like to see a pull cord switch inside the bathroom to be completely happy.

having said that though the mentioned regulation is open to a bit of interpretation and i can see how the described setup could be argued as ok but obviously other factors would need considering, i.e the point that taylortwocities makes about acess to the isolator.

this is why i would say install the switch, and lets be honest its not going to break the bank!

 

[holmslaw]

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[equitum]

The moot point would be the "effective means suitably placed for ready operation " bit.

Would you consider an isolator situated outside the bathroom and buried under a pile of towel as being "suitably placed"?

Absolutely. Its for ISOLATION of the shower circuit not emergency switching.

The main switch could be the means of isolation for all circuits, except that it contravenes the requirement for the ability to isolate individual accessories or circuits. The only reason a DP switch is required for most shower circuits is because its the only accessory on that circuit, and there would otherwise not be a means of isolation. However, in the above case where a separate CU has been provided for the shower, there is a means of isolation via the RCD main switch.

 

[equitum]

Industryspark and taylor , this the problem, you know it is better to install a pull cord for your own peace of mind. You would also probably insist on installing an rcd for shower (not a reg requirement) for the same reasons. Or in other words you interpret the regs on the basis of your own responsibility and conscience. Rather than how can I wriggle out of complying with this reg.

Is it true that some screwfix sparks think that "local isolators" are only required in pubs.

Who is this "screwfix spark" that you speak of ?

Why does having a pull cord offer peace of mind ?

What are the "consequences" of not having one ?

 

[holmslaw]

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[Spark123]

The consequences will be that the shower may not have been installed in line with the manufacturers instructions.
A lot of the MIs I have seen specifically state a Double Pole isolator switch with a 3mm contact gap in both poles, for example here: acrobat page 6.
In this case the instructions specifically require the shower to be turned off at the isolating switch when not in use (ref p3 and p15).
Also on p3 if water stops flowing it says to switch off at the isolating switch.

 

[equitum]

Is it true that some screwfix sparks think that "local isolators" are only required in pubs.

I wonder why you did'nt comment on the above.

I didn't comment because I don't know what screwfix sparks are, and furthermore whether they believe "local isolators" are only required in pubs !!

 

[equitum]

The consequences will be that the shower may not have been installed in line with the manufacturers instructions.
A lot of the MIs I have seen specifically state a Double Pole isolator switch with a 3mm contact gap in both poles, for example here: acrobat page 6.
In this case the instructions specifically require the shower to be turned off at the isolating switch when not in use (ref p3 and p15).
Also on p3 if water stops flowing it says to switch off at the isolating switch.

Fair point, and I agree, if the MI state a separate DP switch is required then one must be installed. However this is a slightly different debate, my post was about compliance with BS7671 and requirements for isolation.


And its nothing to do with saving a tenner or whatever, its about what is actually a regulation and what is not, and about dispelling myths about what is required and what is not, just because people always do it or whether its "good practice"

For example, on a PIR what would you do if you encountered
a situation where a separate shower CU is installed with a 63A/30ma RCD as the main switch providing the sole means of isolation for a shower?

 

[festa]

When carrying out maintenance work on a particular piece of equipment the isolation switch is in your control....without locking off the MCB in a consumer unit situated in another part of the building how can this be in your control?

 

[Click-Sure]

Even in the OP's situation I'd be opting for a pull cord isolator even if the CU is currently situated just around the corner in a cupboard.

If theres a fault on the shower and it needs to be isolated pronto surely pull chord is the best option rarther than a wet body close to a CU with a very low IP rating.

But thats just what I'd want to do, regs, to my knowlege do not implicitly state this.

 

[equitum]

Even in the OP's situation I'd be opting for a pull cord isolator even if the CU is currently situated just around the corner in a cupboard.

If theres a fault on the shower and it needs to be isolated pronto surely pull chord is the best option rarther than a wet body close to a CU with a very low IP rating.

But thats just what I'd want to do, regs, to my knowlege do not implicitly state this.

Again, this is confusing emergency switching and isolation. If there is an earth fault on the shower then the RCD will trip. If the circuit is overloaded then the MCB will trip.

I've never said that a pull switch is not desirable or that I would not fit one, just debating that the ommision of one is not necessarily unsafe or outside of regulations.

 

[equitum]

When carrying out maintenance work on a particular piece of equipment the isolation switch is in your control....without locking off the MCB in a consumer unit situated in another part of the building how can this be in your control?

How do you work on lighting circuits ? How do you work on socket outlet circuits ?

 

[holmslaw]

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[equitum]

"Thoughts" equitum - you are talking **** and your opinion is worthless, as to what the reg actually says read it!

Is it true that some screwfix sparks think that "local isolators" are only required in pubs.

your opinion is worthless

Equitum. I apologise for these words, what I meant to say was - all opinions are worthless (including my own) in a technical debate.

Apology accepted. I was not offended by this, rather puzzled by your aggressive tone and inuendo, and totally baffled by talk of local isolators in pubs, do you have me confused with someone else ??

From the wiki "An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact"

In order to have a debate, then surely participants need to express their assessments, judgements or evaluations of the subject , and these opinions therefore have worth ? If only fact has worth then we may as well reproduce the entire regs onto the site and say no more !

 

[Spark123]

The consequences will be that the shower may not have been installed in line with the manufacturers instructions.
A lot of the MIs I have seen specifically state a Double Pole isolator switch with a 3mm contact gap in both poles, for example here: acrobat page 6.
In this case the instructions specifically require the shower to be turned off at the isolating switch when not in use (ref p3 and p15).
Also on p3 if water stops flowing it says to switch off at the isolating switch.

Fair point, and I agree, if the MI state a separate DP switch is required then one must be installed. However this is a slightly different debate, my post was about compliance with BS7671 and requirements for isolation.

If it isn't installed in accordance with the MI then it doesn't comply with BS7671, see 134.1.1 (17th ed)