Electric towel rail installation

[BILLDIYNOT]

I have read many of the threads related to my topic but would still appreciate some clarification. I have an 80W IPX4 electric towel rail that I will fit in the bathroom but outside of zones 0,1 and 2. I would like to run the cable from the towel rail through the wall, ( wall not tiled ) and directly into a fused switched spur. The cable from this spur would then be chased into the wall outside the bathroom to a currently in place fused spur from where I would obtain the power supply. This currently in place fused spur is connected to a loft light switch, which has a supply feed to it and the currently in place fused spur is also connected, via a switch box to an extractor fan and to a separate light switch downstairs ( so the light and the extractor fan come on at the same time when the downstairs switch is thrown in the downstairs loo ). My design intent is to not have any plates in the bathroom but simply have the cable from the towel rail exiting through the wall and wired into the fused switched unit on the outside wall of the bathroom so I can turn the towel rail on or off as I choose. 1. Is this design acceptable technically and legally ? 2. What type of cable must I use to connect the new fused spur to the currently in place fused spur ? 3. I understand the bathroom and electrics concerns, but would I need to get an electrician in to verify the connection and if so, would he/she be required to give me some kind of minor electrical works certificate to confirm the work meets required regulations ? I am healthily wary of electrics but enjoy DIY and having a tidy job done at, of course, as low a cost as I can have. Thanks, in advance, for your expert advice.

 

[ericmark]

In general terms it seems possible, however there are a few places where it may have a problem, a flex outlet plate

would look better than straight out of the wall, and the supply needs to be controlled in some way, be it a simple switch likely with a built in fuse (FCU) or a timer,

one shown combines fuse switch and timer. As to supply, you have to select a suitable circuit, the installation is divided into circuits, as necessary, to take account of danger that may arise from the failure of a single circuit such as a lighting circuit.
Plus other reasons, you must ensure if there is a fault it will not cause the lights to fail, also it will not overload cables, with the British ring final system this means being careful only to take a single spur from any point on ring and so limit the current in the spur cable, trying to read through your account can't work out exactly what you are doing?

You also need to inspect and test, to most important ensure the earth is able to cause automatic disconnection of the device in the event of a fault, with a house with all RCD protection not too much of a problem, but you may need a RCD FCU or RCD socket or plug, it all depends what is already in place.

For owner occupier or rented rules are the same, but in practice as owner occupier you can get away with things which you can't with rented, with rented you need all the paperwork. One of the reasons I sold my late mothers house rather than rent it, was all the rules involved with renting.

So for legal bit, it is unlikely you can DIY and comply, it would need you to pay silly fees to the LABC, England, Scotland and Wales all different, so to be economical you would be better to employ a scheme member electrician, however if owner occupier then likely you will get away with it even if not fully legal, if rented simply not worth the risk.

And in England you can get an electrician to oversee the job in theory, in practice very few have the authorisation, and be it electrician or LABC they need to be involved before the job starts, not just to check once completed. In Wales has to be LABC no other option, and last time I looked minimum charge around £200 so cheaper to get scheme member electrician to do whole job.

An electrician can do an electrical installation condition report (EICR) and to do one he does not need to be a scheme member, this would one hopes highlight any issues, and make the installation safe once any issues actioned, but he can't after the installation is completed issue a compliance, or completion certificate, so although it may be safe, it will not be legal.

 

[BILLDIYNOT]

Thanks for your reply. Apologies if my description is not clear enough. Aesthetically, I would want to avoid a flex plate on the wall in the bathroom. Apart from the aesthetics, I felt that the fused switch on the outside of the bathroom wall would give the protection to the circuit, as this is the first point at which the wiring from the towel rail is connected to anything. With a flex plate, this would involve additional connections. The connections from the flex plate would then go through the stud wall and be connected to the fused switch on the wall outside the bathroom, which, I felt, was an additional set of connections that were unnecessary. I guess that something like a 3 amp fuse would be appropriate. The consumer unit has RCDs. So that, plus the 3 amp fuse in the fused switch I am proposing, plus the fuse in the previously mentioned "currently in place" fused spur/switch, I felt, (happy to be corrected) would protect the circuit. The towel rail will not be used often, so the timer seemed an unneccesary expense when a simple on/off switch with a neon indicator light on the wall outside the bathroom would suffice. I appreciate the counsel that anything I do here must be verified by a scheme member electrician, which I'm guessing is where most of my cost will be incurred. I would expect, however, some form of documentation confirming that the scheme member electrician did confirm technical and regulatory compliance. Ultimately, due to the regulatory requirements, that and the safety confirmation, is what I would be paying the electrician for. I am trying to keep the cost down by doing the work myself plus, as mentioned, I enjoy "doing it myself".I appreciate your further comments, hoping that this additional text clarifies further.

 

[ericmark]

What you intend to do seems fine.

However the scheme member electrician needs to be involved before you start, not just when finished. And he needs not only to be a scheme member but authorised to inspect and test other peoples work, in England (Not permitted in Wales) the law was changed, so electricians could do the same as the LABC and do the inspection and testing, it was really so an electrician in a firm could test and inspect work done by other trades. Many of the scheme providers did not like the idea, and although the law allows it, many scheme providers don't, so hard to find an electrician authorised to do it.

So in the main you are forced to go through the LABC, in theory once you pay your fee, the council inspector is responsible for site safety, that includes deciding what you have the skill to do, so he could insist that you get a tradesman to complete selected parts, in my case he wanted me to get a contractor to do the inspecting and testing, my son said OK if you insist, but he will need to be higher qualified than my dad, who has a degree, and the inspector backed down.

However you could end up paying double the price to DIY or more, than to get a scheme member to do the whole job. I think most people simply break the law, however once you break the law, then clearly all laws and rules don't count, so why bother asking about them?

 

[EFLImpudence]

With a flex plate, this would involve additional connections.

Not if you don't use the connectors and just feed the cable through.
It will look better than just a hole.

This work is not notifiable (if outside zones as you said) so has nothing to do with the Local Authority or The Schemes.

If you can find an electrician to test it and fill out a form then that is fine.

If I read correctly (a visit to the paragraph shop would be good ) then it seems all that is necessary are connections to two Fused Connector Units - the cable is the spur although sellers make the mistake - so it's up to you.

 

[winston1]

Since you are coming from a fused spur feeding the loft light you don't need second fused spur.

 

[EFLImpudence]

They are NOT spurs.

 

[winston1]

For the pendant l will rewrite it.

Since you are coming from a fused switch feeding the loft light you don't need second fused switch.

 

[EFLImpudence]

For the pendant l will rewrite it.

 

[securespark]

a visit to the paragraph shop would be good

Today's prize for a real belly-laugh!

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

For the pendant l will rewrite it.

Since you are coming from a fused switch feeding the loft light you don't need second fused switch.

Really not getting this statement of yours. Not the first time I've felt like this. What does the style of light fitting have to do with rest of this 'rule'.

 

[winston1]

I'm just saying you don't need two switched fuses in line. The reference to the lift light was to define the first fuse switch.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Not if you don't use the connectors and just feed the cable through.
It will look better than just a hole.

I use these to make the through wall hole look nicer

 

[BILLDIYNOT]

Taylortwocities… that is the kind of thing I am thinking of for the cable going through the wall. Thanks for the support. Aesthetically, I view the flex plate as being overly bulky and not pleasing to the eye.
EFLimpudence… the references to fused spurs is my terminology. As a non electrician, I am not familiar with the difference between a fused switched spur and a fused connector unit which has a switch on it to turn the towel rail on or off. Happy to be educated on this difference.
Winston1.... on the subject of not needing a 2nd fused switch, what should the fuse rating be for the fuse currently in place, (assuming that the towel rail may make a difference to the required fuse rating) ?
However..... I have some questions of clarification, please :-
1. I am reading that I need two fused connector units ( EFLimpudence Sunday 4.08pm

 

[BILLDIYNOT]

Sorry, pressed the return key by mistake...…… to continue....
1. I am reading that I need 2 fused connector units (EFLimpudence Sunday 4.08pm ) but then that I do not need 2 fused switches in line ( Winston 1 Tuesday 11.12am ) My interpretation of the words makes them sound like the same thing to me, but with 2 different suggestions how to do it ?
2. "This work is not notifiable (if outside zones as you said) so has nothing to do with the Local Authority or The Schemes." and "If you can find an electrician to test it and fill out a form then that is fine.". These 2 statements also seem to contradict each other. I would interpret it that, if the work is not notifiable and has nothing to do with the local authority or The Schemes, then why would I need to get an electrician to test it and fill out a form and if I did choose to take this electrician route, what form would he/she fill out ? If the answer is to ensure insurance cover, then I can understand that but otherwise, I am not clear.

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