Electrical courses

[Matt887]

Has anyone who is a trained plumber/gas engineer. And wanted to get some electrical qualifications gone to college on an evening to do this? I don't think you can do the full nvq without being employed as an apprentice. But can you get some worthwhile qualifications?

 

[ericmark]

The problem is getting a scheme to accept you, if the work you are doing does not need notifying then you don't need any qualification, the trade had ordinary, instructed, skilled, and competent person, the competent was dropped.

Skilled person. A person with technical knowledge or sufficient experience to enable him/her to avoid dangers
which electricity may create.

Competent person. A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and
experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where
appropriate, injury to him/herself and others.

The Part P or other laws depending where you live vary, in Wales the kitchen is a special location, in England it isn't.

The new English landlord laws state "“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;"

Anything you repair or install should have a minor works or installation certificate or a portable appliance test completed, so C&G 2391 covers testing and inspection of the installation, and C&G 2377 for the PAT testing actually called "The inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment" and comes in two parts, the actually testing and inspecting and the management of the results.

The new landlord law in England has caused a small problem with definitions "“consumer’s installation” means the electric lines situated upon the consumer’s side of the supply terminals together with any equipment permanently connected or intended to be permanently connected thereto on that side;" the IET does not include current using equipment as part of the installation with the exception of the lights, so an EICR would have stopped at the fused connection unit, or socket, and the inspection and testing of in-service electrical equipment would have taken over at that point.

However now it seems the inspector must also look at any fixed equipment, boilers, immersion heaters, even the washing machine unless fitted with wheels. Seem to remember over 28 kg is considered fixed unless on wheels, so the electrician must remove covers unless clearly marked only to be removed by gas safe qualified personal to inspect the connections.

As an electrician I don't want to go into a boiler, as a volunteer I do work on boilers, removing covers and cladding for inspections, but these are real boilers, not domestic things, which if they did what they say on the can and boiled the water one would consider faulty.

The problem with being a scheme member is the annual cost, it is not worth being a member unless you are doing regular notifiable work, as well as membership fees, there is cost of meters and books, and the calibration of the meters.

I have my C&G 2391, in fact a degree in electrical engineering, but even so waiting for the railway where I volunteer to accept these are good enough for me to work on electrical equipment, they may ask for 18th Edition, I only have 17th Edition. It is up to their safety officer and their insurers to say OK or not. Even when most of my working life I was employed as an electrician or electrical engineer.

 

[cdbe]

The new English landlord laws state "“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;"

My nephew is a qualified electrician and is employed by a large housing association, he spends the majority of his time doing EICR inspections and remedials but he doesn't have a 2391(?) as they see no need to pay for him to do this - he won't even do his own rental property. Personally I would have thought that if push came to shove the fact that he has spent 5 years of full time employment doing these would demonstrate his competence.

 

[ericmark]

My nephew is a qualified electrician and is employed by a large housing association, he spends the majority of his time doing EICR inspections and remedials but he doesn't have a 2391(?) as they see no need to pay for him to do this - he won't even do his own rental property. Personally I would have thought that if push came to shove the fact that he has spent 5 years of full time employment doing these would demonstrate his competence.

As said there is no single qualification to be an electrician, when I first trained I could have done an apprenticeship without going to collage, same with my dad, 5 years apprenticeship and 2 years journeyman and he was qualified.

The problem arises when some thing goes wrong, one needs to show a court you had the skill, which since some thing went wrong, it seems likely you don't have the skill.

But pnow bodies kerfect, we all make mistakes, and we then need to show we took reasonable care to ensure nothing went wrong. Or show a "warranty of skill" which is the correct name for it. Likely 50 years in the trade is enough, but when I came to do the electrics at my mothers house the LABC would not accept my sons C&G 2391 but did accept my degree even though in real terms it did not make me any more able.

 

[Matt887]

Thanks for the detailed response maybe a course that leads me to be able to take the inspection and test and 18th addition. If there is such a thing? I have emailed colleges but not had much of a detailed response

 

[flameport]

I don't think you can do the full nvq without being employed as an apprentice.

The NVQ requires a work based portfolio, which rather obviously can only be done properly if you are actually working as an electrician.

inspection and test and 18th addition.

The 2391 inspection and testing is intended for experienced electricians - as in those who can already do the inspection and testing. It is not suitable for anyone else.
The 18th edition is based on how to read that particular book.

The real question is what do you want these qualifications for?

 

[muggles]

I have. Did Part P, Initial Verification, 18th Edition regs, and Inspection & Testing. Took about 2 weeks full time at college, registered with OFTEC which is overseen by NAPIT. Did it all through Logic4Training in Luton

 

[Matt887]

I have. Did Part P, Initial Verification, 18th Edition regs, and Inspection & Testing. Took about 2 weeks full time at college, registered with OFTEC which is overseen by NAPIT. Did it all through Logic4Training in Luton

Did you already have good electrical knowledge before attending?

 

[ericmark]

I first got a mobile phone because my son want to become an electrician. Most getting into the trade need a mentor, some one they can ask when they reach a problem.

Even fully qualified electrician some times need some one to bounce ideas off.

My son now an industrial electrician with an electrical degree behind him, but in the early years he was a chancer, he hoped he would be able to work it out. And first two years he was working with me, OK fitting alarms and shop fitting, so limited variety, but when he went solo trader it only worked as he could ring me, and I could respond.

Today he runs rings around me, I never did Seamens PLC's or the drives he works on, but much was luck, and hard work, he was at least 6 years into trade before being on good money.

 

[muggles]

Did you already have good electrical knowledge before attending?

I'd done the Part P Defined Scope 5 years previously but that was scrapped by the time I came to renew, which is what pushed me to do the full qualification. I'd wired a few heating systems and basically understood how to make electricity work