Electrician and regulations

[EFLImpudence]

No, Part P is the single sentence which states:

That's it.

 

[Murdochcat]

Its a few more words than that:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441872/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

 

[ebee]

By showing the £10 I can see how many jobs I've notified and the value.

Given CPS charges have risen so much I suspect it should be at least £20

Also I have been asked by the odd customer what this is for and when I explain I politely suggest they check with other people who are quoting.


BUT it seems to be the norm now for notification to be done but no EIC supplied ..........

It is a scheme rule that you supply the EIC surely? so you must do that if you are a scheme member.

Showing a ten or twenty or a hundred pound charge for notifying is necessarily incorrect or correct and what you decide, if any, towards a job that needs notifying is up to you but it`s not actually required to be shown.
When Part P came in I decided to calculate the rules as a minor running expense to all jobs plus a little extra on any jobs that actually needed notifying but I did not show those costs to customers.
Others decided perhaps to do one way or the other.
In fact some decided to allow a lot for the "extra" burden it put on like having insurance, filling in an EIC, having suitable test gear and calibration etc etc but I didn`t, in my opinion any decent electrician should really have almost all of those things in place anyway.
Whichever way you decide to do it then it might be a small amount or a large amount.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Its a few more words than that:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441872/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

That’s not the STATUTORY INSTRUMENT (law).
That is the approved document which (if you read the introduction) provides methods by which one can comply with the law.

 

[ebee]

That’s not the STATUTORY INSTRUMENT (law).
That is the approved document which (if you read the introduction) provides methods by which one can comply with the law.

Agreed, the Approved Doc is one way of achieving Part P. Part P itself is the law, it is a part of the building regulations, the doc is not.

In fact, a few years back, I did have an argument with a scheme assessor.
He asked me what came under part p - I replied all domestic electrical work in England and Wales and before I could mention that shared supplies with domestic properties (flat above the shop etc) he tried to tell me that only consumer unit changes and new circuits and points in bathrooms and outside etc came under part p I replied, no you are wrong, it all comes under part p itself but only some of it is actually notifiable.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Its a few more words than that:

No it isn't.

It's only been eighteen years.

 

[Taylortwocities]

When stating "Regulation 12" then regulation 12 of what exactly?

The compliance certificate, provided to LABC by the CPS says this

Look them up. The paras say basically that the work has been done properly and that it complies with the relavent building regs. Part P in this case As well as B, L, F, M and others that might apply to the work in question.

 

[ebee]

No it isn't.

It's only been eighteen years.

yes Jan 1st 2005 and since, seems like yesterday.

I think it started out as a good idea with good intent but MPs were told it would cost each entity about £500 over 5 years (that was a bit wrong!) but I do not think it did what intended, although it seems that many more people have half decent test gear compared to back then, so some good might have come out of it.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Back in our day, training covered many more areas than it appears to today

 

[EFLImpudence]

View attachment 313171

I can't find any copies that I might have had.

Does that certificate relate to electrical work and if so, do they all say that?

Part 4 is about giving notice and 7 all about water efficiency.

 

[Fellwalking]

Er not necessarily.

With Napit you can opt for post delivery, electronic delivery or just download it yourself.

If you opt for the electronic delivery, the customer gets an email allowing them to download it themselves and when they do this they can opt to answer some questions about the installer................

I use the download and send with my invoice and EIC then its all done and dusted at the same time - and later when they lose the email, I can forward it to them again!

@Fellwalking changing a consumer unit is notifiable work. To self-notify your electrician needs to be registered with one of the Competent Person Schemes. (CPS)
check that your “electrician” is listed here

https://electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/

If they are listed then you can complain to their (CPS). If they aren’t listed they should not have done the job.

yes the electrician is registered with the CPS.

 

[Fellwalking]

Er not necessarily.

With Napit you can opt for post delivery, electronic delivery or just download it yourself.

If you opt for the electronic delivery, the customer gets an email allowing them to download it themselves and when they do this they can opt to answer some questions about the installer................

I use the download and send with my invoice and EIC then its all done and dusted at the same time - and later when they lose the email, I can forward it to them again!

That’s interesting as according to Napit, they do not send out or have any responsibility for issuing the certificates. They stated that’s the responsibility of the electrician. They were far from helpful and defensive.

 

[Fellwalking]

As for question 1/.
There is no actual regulation stating that an EICR/PIR must be done before adding a new consumer unit.
However, any half decent pro would usually do at least part of the inspecting and testing process of this before changing the consumer unit.
All the law says that it must be "safe" and it is extremely difficult to see how this might be achieved and it is difficult to imagine how it has been achieved without prior testing and then some subsequent live testing.

Also, in England and Wales, such works as changing a consumer unit must be notified to the local authority under Part P of the building regulations.
Scotland and Norther Ireland each have different, but perhaps equally effective, rules. So in effect similar sorts of rules in place with a legal standing.

You do not mention to what extent you believe the electrician you originally used is qualified and to what extent they are actually qualified. Anyone can claim to be an electrician if they say for instance twist two wires together and something works. The term "Electrician" has not protected status.

A tutor on one of our City & Guilds electrical courses once said something like - Someone I know is a highly intelligent, highly qualified brain surgeon, I would trust him with my life to operate on my brain. That does not mean that I would also trust him to slide down a pole and race to my home to put a fire out unless he also happened to be a qualified firefighter.

We suspect that he didn’t do an EICR in order to fleece us, he alleged immediately after installing the consumer unit that the property needed a full re-wire. If I describe what happened next, it could identify me, but suffice to say, he caused substantial damage in more ways than one. We only realised after the event that an EICR prior to installation is best practice.

An EICR has since been completed and it found the fuse box to be untidy, live wires were also left exposed in x3 locations in property.

“Qualified” was presumed on the basis of him having Napit membership.

 

[Taylortwocities]

That’s interesting as according to Napit, they do not send out or have any responsibility for issuing the certificates. They stated that’s the responsibility of the electrician. They were far from helpful and defensive.

You are confused. @Murdochcat is talking about the delivery of the Certificate of Compliance (notification). That comes from NAPIT and is sent to the customer and the LABC.
The Electrical Installation Certificate is provided by the electrician.

 

[scousespark]

An electrician is defined as "A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others." he does not need any qualifications, it is actually a competent person which is higher than skilled.

That's out of date and as far as I recall, was the BS7671 definition for a 'competent person' up to the 17th edition amendment 3 (but I haven't checked). In the current edition, there are 3 sets of people.

Skilled Person (electrically) - Person who possesses, as appropriate to the nature of the electrical work to be undertaken, adequate education, training and practical skills, and who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards who is able to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create.

Instructed Person (electrically) - Person adequately advised or supervised by a skilled person (as defined) to enable that person to perceive risks and to avoid hazards which electricity can create.

Ordinary Person - Person who is neither a skilled person nor an instructed person.