Electrician gone on holl's and plasterer coming at weekend !

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HI All.. I had the electrician booked for today to drop in the wires before the plasterer comes at weekend to put the boards on. He didn't arrive so I've called him and he's sat on a beach in Crete or somewhere :(
So, I'm going to have to put the wires in myself.... :confused:
I'm okay with this but don't know the rules / reg's... its only 4 socketts and 3 lights but do I need to know anything about running the wires?.... I'm assuming I can run the ring under the floor and come up to the socketts... If I have one at worktop height, do I need to put any covering on the wires like the metal top hat section stuff?... and when I'm running for the lights.. It's a internal pitched roof so will have to go horizontal accross the walls with the wire at a couple of points... does this need additional protection or must it be above some height??
It will be inspected by the planning guy mid week so I need to get it right... any tip's appreciated... Cheers :)
 
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You aren't having much luck with tradesmen on this build, are you.

What kind of electrician goes off on holiday when he's got a job booked in his diary? Or takes a job for when he already knows he's going to be away?

Answers on a postcard.... :rolleyes:

Anyway - when you applied for Building Regulations approval, what did you say, or allow to be said on your behalf, or by default accept, would be the way that you would ensure the electrical work complied with Part P?

FYI - if you do something different you might not get a completion certificate. You might have to put the plastering on hold until your electrician materialises.
 
I know the electrician you mean, he's often mentioned on here. I don't know how he manages to make a living.

You will have to cancel your plasterer.
 
Is it that hard?.. I need 3 socketts low down and one at worktop height... do you just come up to them....
and can you run light wires horizontal.... and if you can, do they need protection and do they have to be at a certain height?....

All I want to do is run the wires... he can do the rest when he gets back...

My plasterer in my mate who lives in Crete (Also!)... he's here for a couple of week and the middle weekend we'd planned to do the job ....

And your right... I'm not having luck with this at all... have I just picked all the bad ones FFS! :LOL:
 
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he can do the rest when he gets back...
There's the problem, he can't.

FOR DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION, INSPECTION & TESTING
I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection & testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design, construction, inspection & testing hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2011 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:

And when you applied for Building Regulations approval, what did you say, or allow to be said on your behalf, or by default accept, would be the way that you would ensure the electrical work complied with Part P?
 
OK.. see what you mean... so he's got to do the full job... TBH he'd be okay with me doing it.. but your right... it does say he's got to install it also....

On the application all it says is that it must comply to the standards.... :(

great.. so looks like I'm stuck ... Reading the 17th edition.. it does say something about 'compitant persons' etc ??
 
The electrician on holiday is the standard for DIY guys not wanting to admit they are going to DIY so it is always seen as an excuse even if in fact it's true.

Clearly you have the LABC involved and it could be the LABC are issuing a completion certificate or they expect to see a compliance certificate from the electrician? We had a case on here where it cost the home owner an extra £450 because electrics were missed off his application.

With the LABC looking over your shoulder clearly you have to keep to the rules when I did my mother wet room they wanted to know my qualifications before allowing me to submit the installation certificate.

There can be three signatures design, installation and inspection and testing so the LABC inspector could allow you to do some and the electrician to do some but it's up to them no one other than them can say what is being allowed.

Today the LABC can sub contract the testing and inspecting and charge you for the cost. So if the inspector is a sub contractor you can be charged for visit even if there is nothing to test.

Since you only say United Kingdom it could come under many different rules although all parts of the UK follow BS 7671 Wales, England, Scotland and Ulster all have different rules for enforcement although England and Wales both have Part P they are not the same song sheets Wales has far more rules.

There are in wiki the zone rules but some of the rules are seldom followed for example the appendix 12 bit about 2 kW limit for non portable appliance from ring final. It is down to the inspector if an oven can be powered from the ring final and most electricians would be able to argue the point and get their way but as to a true DIY guy then the inspectors word is law.

So to questions in the main we will follow the safe zone routes as any metal protection would need earthing and it would be a nightmare to earth every bit of metal protecting the cable. There is no need for capping be it plastic or metal unless the plaster is likely to affect the cables. The oval conduit is normally used for re-wire as a narrower chase is required and really it is only there to protect from plasters trowel. The plaster likes metal as it does not flex as much but as said earthing is now a problem the oval conduit flexes less than plastic capping so oval conduit or nothing seems best course. You can use Ali-tube cable but hard to buy short lengths so it is rarely used.

The testing is clearly very important The Emma Shaw case showed that and also of course it does not matter how well an electrician does the job it can be damaged by the plaster so still needs full testing.

I know there are some who will tell you simply don't do it but there are others who will give advice. But you need to be honest and give required information like location.

I would never advise some one with full test equipment to use a FCU rather than extend the ring. However for some one without the equipment required I may well recommend the use of FCU's. Just giving an example how advice changes according to what we think the poster has or does not have both with equipment and knowledge.

P.S. at the moment we still have competent person this goes in June where we drop to just two levels instructed and skilled the higher competent class is combined with skilled. Do remember a competent persons scheme is very different to competent person this is likely why competent person is to be dropped. Now we all need to look after the safety of others.
 
Ok.. well thanks for the reply. I'm actualy a Engineer and spend a lot of time working on 415v 3 phase.... I can design the machines, build them, loom them, make the electrical panels, thest the finished unit and sell the thing... even install in the USA as they are UL / CSA approved, but I can't legaly put a new sockett in at home... HaHo.... thats the regs and I understand why they are there....

I've since had a mail from the electricial appologising and saying he got the dates mixed up.. he had a small heart attack 4 weeks ago and has gone to recover (not sure how he's got insurance on that one??).. anyway, he'll be back on the 2nd and straight on with it?.....
But it just puts the job on hold (again)

I've just been looking in the 17th edition and looking at zones etc and the 150mm from wall edges and all that stuff.. looks quite straight forward so will have a word with the planning inspector and see what he says.. we are in Leeds FYI.....

any further pointers greatfuly received.. thanks for all your input so far :)
 
Why not fit the recessed metal boxes to the wall where you want them, then fit 20 mm oval conduits between the box and the underside of the floorboards.

This way the plastering can be done, and the cables can be drawn through the conduits later.

If you lightly hammer one end of the oval conduit into a circular shape, the end will then fit through a 20 mm knockout on the metal box. You need about 2 or 3 mm of the tube entering the box, no more. Keep the conduit in place with galvanised nails either side.

Make sure all conduits are dead vertical to the box.
 
Sounds like a plan. Assume its allowed. Mind you it don't resolve the lights unless I do something similar. Or could chase it out after?
 
Just tell the plasterer the job is not ready and re-book him when the electrician returns from his 'holiday' or you've arranged for another electrician to come and do the work.

Do you think a domestic electrician could design and wire the three phase machine control panels you work on?

They are completely different disciplines, and just because they both use electricity it does not mean the respective skill sets are interchangeable.
 
If you lightly hammer one end of the oval conduit into a circular shape, the end will then fit through a 20 mm knockout on the metal box.
Or use these MK Masterseal conduit adapters.

MK56462.JPG


They are soft rubber - the large end squashes with fingers to allow oval conduit in, and the other end stays round and fits into a 20mm KO like a grommet.

Takes seconds. They aren't cheap though.


Or....


IMGP3408.jpg


disimulo.gif
 
Before Part P I swapped about many times maintenance, installation and house bashing when I couldn't get one of the others. OK there are a few bits which are different only maintenance required PLC's programmed and only installation worried about marking the glands, only petrol chemical used Hawk glands and only house bashing required the electrician to bang out his own chasing but in the main they used the same skills and this array of different cards one for site safety one to drive a cherry picker another for a fork lift has really gone daft.

And the charges for LABC if you forget to include electrics is frankly silly. Likely since in England not notifiable anyway so likely you can DIY without a problem.
 
It's work in an extension - even if it would not be notifiable in its own right the council will want proof of compliance with Part P.
 
Thats interesting... just txt him and he says :-

'' I'm authorised to certificate work done by other electrical contractors who are not registered''.....

So as long as I do it right, he's okay with that?.. does that ring true??
 

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