EU unhappy with astrazeneca

[sxturbo]

And there never will be, for obvious reasons. It will never be revealed by political partners, nor private companies, all who may have prestige to lose.
But valid conjecture, none the less.


If the contracts were signed prior to clinical trial completion, and prior to the completion of such production capacity, and there was no priority order built into either contract, the chronological signing order of such contracts is irrelevant.

For sure, if the production line was complete and already producing, your argument might stand up, but it wasn't and it doesn't.

it will never be revealed because you've made it up to satisfy your own delusion.

the vaccine was in development stage, but at the time of contract signing production was already being geared up, and so the production run was already being decided and implemented.

this is why az said the vaccine for the eu was 3 months behind, the vaccine takes time to grow and it is difficult to speed it up

in order to get the drug to market asap production and build of the production line was started the moment the contracts were signed. If the vaccine turned out to be a dud, they would have just shutdown the production lines and burnt everything. the contracts advised that it may not work and there were clauses meaning that AZ wouldn't have to provide a refund if the vaccine was found to be ineffective.

 

[sxturbo]

A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.[2][3] Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects.

Straw man tactics in the United Kingdom may also be known as an Aunt Sally, after a pub game of the same name, where patrons throw sticks or battens at a post to knock off a skittle balanced on top.[4][5]

exactly what bobby trump has done then yeah?

 

[^woody^]

Is it permissible to have 'dual-nationality'?

Duel, no' multi personality let alone gender more like

 

[^woody^]

I can't believe that the same old fools are still trying to defend the EU, and its lack of action.

More so, still trying to criticise the UK just for being the UK, despite the foresight and planning the UK gov has done on the vaccine procurement.

There seems to be some idiots who take issue with the UK gov actually putting their citizens first, but expect the UK to help everyone else except those who actually live in the UK. FFS.

 

[transam]

There is a new vaccine being tested it’s manufactured in Scotland

the uk have pre ordered 50 million doses

how many have the French ordered

none

and the vaccine company is a French owned company

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

it will never be revealed because you've made it up to satisfy your own delusion.

I think you mean I've presented an alternative fact-based conjecture.
I thought the discussion deserved an alternative fact-based conjecture.

the vaccine was in development stage,

Yes it was in development stage, trials had not begun when UK signed their contract.
The EU contract was signed around the same time as the commencement of trials.
The EU waited until the developed had been successful, and trials could begin.

but at the time of contract signing production was already being geared up, and so the production run was already being decided and implemented.

You don't start production of an untested product.
For sure AZ might have started installing the production line, to cater for the UK's contract.
But then AZ said to EU that there was no limiting factor preventing the supply to EU. Oh dear, that's blown that theory.

this is why az said the vaccine for the eu was 3 months behind, the vaccine takes time to grow and it is difficult to speed it up.

The only time lag was in the signing of contracts, and the approval of the vaccine. there were no other processes pertinent to the time lag.

in order to get the drug to market asap production and build of the production line was started the moment the contracts were signed. If the vaccine turned out to be a dud, they would have just shutdown the production lines and burnt everything. the contracts advised that it may not work and there were clauses meaning that AZ wouldn't have to provide a refund if the vaccine was found to be ineffective.

So that happened when the UK signed the contract?
So the EU contract was merely a bonus?
AZ didn't need the EU contract?
AZ returned the money spent back to the UK, as no longer needed?

All biased-based conjecture.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I can't believe that the same old fools are still trying to defend the EU, and its lack of action.

More so, still trying to criticise the UK just for being the UK, despite the foresight and planning the UK gov has done on the vaccine procurement.

There seems to be some idiots who take issue with the UK gov actually putting their citizens first, but expect the UK to help everyone else except those who actually live in the UK. FFS.

It's a case of getting to the bottom of the problem.
And dispensing with, or refuting all this biased-based conjecture. For example the whole of your post.
Something which many are loath to do.

 

[transam]

It's a case of getting to the bottom of the problem.
And dispensing with, or refuting all this biased-based conjecture. For example the whole of your post.
Something which many are loath to do.

Jeez us wept

 

[Trazor]

I think you mean I've presented an alternative fact-based conjecture.

Fact based conjecture........................Oxymoron's rule OK.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

There is a new vaccine being tested it’s manufactured in Scotland

the uk have pre ordered 50 million doses

how many have the French ordered

none

and the vaccine company is a French owned company

It looks like UK are buying up all the available vaccines.
There'll be none left for anyone else at this rate.
How much does the UK have now?
Is it 1 billion yet?
Enough to vaccinate all the people, sheep, cows, cats, dogs, budgerigars, etc?

Maybe they'll sell them on the black market.

Oops! Silly me, now you'll be accusing me of being racist.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Fact based conjecture........................Oxymoron's rule OK.

If it fits the facts, it's fact-based conjecture.

Definition of conjecture

1a: inference formed without proof or sufficient evidence
b: a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork
c: a proposition (as in mathematics) before it has been proved or disproved​

 

[ajohn]

btw - I bet that was really friggin helpful having an inspection/raid, while you are trying to work through production issues.

It isn't as hard to do as some might think and needn't interfere with work in progress and there is no need to understand the process either.

It might go something like why are our supplies low. Answer might be because yields are lower than expected. The reply might be our medical people say they always are so what are you doing about it. (Ours have said that so it's nothing new) They might say we need more vats - ok where are they, Oh we need more space, reply well?

This area seems to be where AZ have upset the EU so they seek clarity on what AZ are doing. Pfizer announced what they were doing. The other aspect is transparency on what is going where - maybe no problem at all but as price variations exist it might be.

The NI business - I don't think anyone in their right mind would establish a boarder there. It was just being used as a method of obtaining info on what is going where and via that route. It needn't be to just the UK. Ships and aircraft can go all over the place.

Pharma share prices have increased as have dividends. I'll say no more about that.

 

[^woody^]

It looks like UK are buying up all the available vaccines.
There'll be none left for anyone else at this rate.
How much does the UK have now?
Is it 1 billion yet?
Enough to vaccinate all the people, sheep, cows, cats, dogs, budgerigars, etc?

Maybe they'll sell them on the black market.

Oops! Silly me, now you'll be accusing me of being racist.

It might be too much for you mind to handle, but consider if the UK gov is doing some more advance planning and procurement, and getting prepared for an annual or two-yearly vaccination programme.

 

[sxturbo]

I think you mean I've presented an alternative fact-based conjecture.
I thought the discussion deserved an alternative fact-based conjecture.


Yes it was in development stage, trials had not begun when UK signed their contract.
The EU contract was signed around the same time as the commencement of trials.
The EU waited until the developed had been successful, and trials could begin.


You don't start production of an untested product.
For sure AZ might have started installing the production line, to cater for the UK's contract.
But then AZ said to EU that there was no limiting factor preventing the supply to EU. Oh dear, that's blown that theory.


The only time lag was in the signing of contracts, and the approval of the vaccine. there were no other processes pertinent to the time lag.


So that happened when the UK signed the contract?
So the EU contract was merely a bonus?
AZ didn't need the EU contract?
AZ returned the money spent back to the UK, as no longer needed?

All biased-based conjecture.

AZ started building the uk production lines at the point the contract was signed, shortly after the production line was in place they started making the vaccine.

at the time of eu signing the contract they were advised at the time on the knowledge they had to hand at the time.

when the EU signed the contract AZ started building the production line and commencement of growing the vaccine, in the EU factories.

yes this started before trials had started and completed, it has been well documented.

AZ hasnt returned any of the money. there were clauses in the contract that said if the vaccine didnt work AZ wouldnt have to return the money spent gearing up.

the whole thing was a gamble.

i was just watching politics live on bbc 2 and it was mentioned by the pro eu people they had on that the way the EU had handled everything over the last week was quite bad. it only appears to be you that keeps dreaming up excuses for the EU.

they made a cock up, theyve handled it badly, take it on the chin and move on.

everything on this thread has been backed up in the media from all sides except for virtually everything you have said while trying to make excuses for the EU.

 

[transam]

It looks like UK are buying up all the available vaccines.
There'll be none left for anyone else at this rate.
How much does the UK have now?
Is it 1 billion yet?
Enough to vaccinate all the people, sheep, cows, cats, dogs, budgerigars, etc?

Maybe they'll sell them on the black market.

Oops! Silly me, now you'll be accusing me of being racist.

nonsense himagain

macron is probably unaware that there is a French vaccine company in Scotland

let’s face it the scoundrel is not the sharpest tool in the box