Extension Electrics

S

sammoseley

Hi
Building an extension (my own) and the BCO has mentioned the "part P certificate" that's required before he'll issue completion certificate.
Bearing in mind the extension involves no additional circuits, no kitchen, no work within the bathroom zones specified in part P as "notifiable", and will consist only of adding two or three lights, and adding some sockets on existing rings, I would prefer to do this work myself as I've done many times in the past a s non-notifiable work.
Therefore am I right in saying the BCO should not require any certificate as the electrical work is non-notifiable under part P?
Appreciate there's a lot on here about part P already which I have looked through, but any advice on whether I've got the above right would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Sam
 
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Building an extension (my own) and the BCO has mentioned the "part P certificate" that's required before he'll issue completion certificate. Bearing in mind the extension involves no additional circuits, no kitchen, no work within the bathroom zones specified in part P as "notifiable", and will consist only of adding two or three lights, and adding some sockets on existing rings, I would prefer to do this work myself as I've done many times in the past a s non-notifiable work. Therefore am I right in saying the BCO should not require any certificate as the electrical work is non-notifiable under part P?
All electrical work, whether notifiable or not, has to comply with Part P, so I suppose the BCO is asking for some sort of confirmation that the electrical work in the extension is compliant. You probably should ask him what he means by a 'Part P Certificate', since there is no offical certificate with that name. I would imagine that he would be looking for an EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate), which can be completed by anyone 'competent' (even you, if BCO judged you to be competent), but it would need to include relevant test results.

Kind Regards, John
 
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Wouldn't MWC's * be more appropriate, as there are no new circuits, just additions to existing ones?

* Sorry, Minor Works Certificates.
 
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Wouldn't MWC's * be more appropriate, as there are no new circuits, just additions to existing ones? * Sorry, Minor Works Certificates.
Yes - I should have said EIC or MWC. I take it that you haven't come across a 'Part P Certificate'?!

Kind Regards, John
 
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sammoseley

Thanks. Guess I need to speak to bco and see what they need. I have a friend who is a qualified to install and test but not part of any scheme to issue certs that would normally tick the box in these situations, maybe the mwc is an option.
I didn't realise anyone who is not registered/in a scheme could be deemed competent and no idea how bco would make that judgement? I would never dream of adding a new circuit so wouldn't expect to ever be able to fill in an eic.

Cheers
Sam
 
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Thanks. Guess I need to speak to bco and see what they need. I have a friend who is a qualified to install and test but not part of any scheme to issue certs that would normally tick the box in these situations, maybe the mwc is an option.
Scheme membership is only relevant to ('self-') certifying notifiable work.
I didn't realise anyone who is not registered/in a scheme could be deemed competent and no idea how bco would make that judgement? I would never dream of adding a new circuit so wouldn't expect to ever be able to fill in an eic.
The 'powers wot be' have rathwer confused the issue by their use of words, since we now have 'Competent' (member of a Competent Person's Self-Certication Scheme) and 'competent' (everyday meaning)! BCO's judgements about who is 'competent' (small 'c') to, say, undertake testing seem variable, and not necessarily understandable!

Kind Regards, John
 
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Building an extension (my own) and the BCO has mentioned the "part P certificate" that's required before he'll issue completion certificate.
The fact that the electrical work in isolation is non-notifiable is irrelevant, there is, for all work, always the legal requirement to comply with Part P of the Building Regulations.

Completion Notices/Certificates issued by LABCs are unqualified, so notifiable or not, per se, they must satisfy themselves that the electrics comply with Part P.

So....

And this is crucial...

When you applied for Building Regulations approval for the extension, what did you say, or allow to be said on your behalf, or by any sort of omission tacitly accept, would be the way that you would ensure that the electrical work in the extension would comply with Part P?

Because if that is going to differ from what you actually do, the sooner you sort the discrepancy out with your BCO the better - the problem (if there is one) will not go away if you carry on on the basis that because the electrical work is not notifiable in its own right you can do what you like.
 
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Surely if the work is not notifiable then you simply do not have to notify them of the work! Nor do you also have to produce any certificate for the work. It is simply not examined or evaluated as part of the building regulations approval or inspections.

I followed this method this year and all worked out fine - Did not mention anything about electrics, BCO chap did not ask, everyone was happy. The work involved a few things - new lights + switch, new extractor fan, new radial circuit for a socket, etc.

However since he HAS asked, I would argue it's down to BC to prove the electrical work is not up to scratch, rather than you having to prove it is.

There is no such thing as a 'Part P' certificate. There is also no certificate for parts A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I.. etc.
 
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Surely if the work is not notifiable then you simply do not have to notify them of the work! Nor do you also have to produce any certificate for the work. It is simply not examined or evaluated as part of the building regulations approval or inspections.
I suspect that, As BAS has implied, electrics will have been mentioned in the application - so, even if not notifiable work, BC has to be satisfied that it is compliant with Part P before they can issue a Completion Certificate.
I followed this method this year and all worked out fine - Did not mention anything about electrics, BCO chap did not ask, everyone was happy. The work involved a few things - new lights + switch, new extractor fan, new radial circuit for a socket, etc.
"New radial circuit for a socket" sounds notifiable to me! Do you perhaps not mean a 'new cicuit'(i.e. from CU)?

Kind Regards, John
 
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Surely if the work is not notifiable then you simply do not have to notify them of the work!
He's building an extension.

The extension is notifiable.

He has notified them.

The electrical work within the extension has to comply with Part P.

He will be wanting them to issue a completion notice stating that the extension complies with the Building Regulations.

They would be delinquent if they did not satisfy themselves that the electrical work within the extension complied with Part P.


Nor do you also have to produce any certificate for the work. It is simply not examined or evaluated as part of the building regulations approval or inspections.
They would be delinquent if they did not satisfy themselves that the electrical work within the extension complied with Part P.


I followed this method this year and all worked out fine - Did not mention anything about electrics, BCO chap did not ask, everyone was happy.
You must have a delinquent LABC. The OP appears not to.


The work involved a few things - new lights + switch, new extractor fan, new radial circuit for a socket, etc.
That was notifiable.


However since he HAS asked, I would argue it's down to BC to prove the electrical work is not up to scratch, rather than you having to prove it is.
No - I really do think that it is down to the OP to show BC that the work complies, not down to them to show that it does not. You really do have a strange idea of how things work.


There is no such thing as a 'Part P' certificate. There is also no certificate for parts A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I.. etc.
There are also no separate completion notices for compliance of the extension with each applicable part - it's all or nothing.

Building Control would be delinquent if they did not satisfy themselves that the electrical work within the extension complied with Part P.
 
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He's building an extension. The extension is notifiable. He has notified them. The electrical work within the extension has to comply with Part P. He will be wanting them to issue a completion notice stating that the extension complies with the Building Regulations. They would be delinquent if they did not satisfy themselves that the electrical work within the extension complied with Part P.
As you will realise, I essentially agree with you. However, as I implied in my last post, it's just possible that he did not mention any electrical work in his application (maybe because it was all work which, in its own right, would be 'non-notifiable'). If that were the case, then I would have thought that the Completion Certificate would probably only relate to, and only refer to, the work of which BC were aware (per application), not including any electrical work (of which, after all, there might genuinely be none, at least at the time).

Kind Regards, John
 
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Yes - I should have said EIC or MWC. I take it that you haven't come across a 'Part P Certificate'?!
I would think it would have to be an EIC since the minor works certificates I have seen tend to be for a single circuit.
The OP has mentioned at least 2 possibly 3 circuits.
The critical point here though is that the OP has not mentioned how he intends to test the circuits once they are changed.
We also know from recent the 'scouse' experience that adding to a ring final circuit is not as easy sometimes as it seems.
 
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Yes - I should have said EIC or MWC. I take it that you haven't come across a 'Part P Certificate'?!
I would think it would have to be an EIC since the minor works certificates I have seen tend to be for a single circuit. The OP has mentioned at least 2 possibly 3 circuits.
It probably would make sense, but I don't think there is any 'law' saying that one can't have multiple MWCs - after all, different circuits might be dealt with by different people on different days, in which case there presumably would have to be multiple MWCs!

Kind Regards, John
 
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sammoseley

Application does make reference to part P, 17th edition, inspection and testing. (only thought to look after these replied mind ;)

While BCO was satisfied that the works were not "notifiable", he would still require evidence of testing and mentioned a "BS7671 certificate", to which I asked if a MWC was acceptable and he seemed to say yes. No issue with this being done by someone who is not registered tho.

FWIW he also mentioned that any "part P notifiable" work will always incur a minimum £400 for the council's subcontracted electrician to inspect etc, which he said makes it "never worth your while" to do it that way, which reading other part P stuff online didnt surprise me much but is useful to know for future ref.

Swinging towards probably biting the bullet and getting it all done by registered spark to keep things simple and I know will do a top job but a useful learning exercise in a confusing area!
Cheers for the replies
Sam
 

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