Externally located electric meters

[ban-all-sheds]

If they had carrots as well as sticks people would be happier.

The problem is that ideally we should also have smart appliances which negotiate with each other to manage use, and with the supplier to schedule it, but that's going to be a long time coming.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Can anybody remember which towns/cities worth of juice would be saved if we all had smart meters, according to the latest TV advert in the Desperate Housemeterers series?

 

[rsgaz]

which towns/cities worth of juice

"We could save enough energy to power every home in Cardiff, Aberdeen & Manchester for a year, if we all got a smart meter."

 

[opps]

I don't have a "smart meter" and don't want one but I wonder how much more I am paying to subsidise the roll out of them.

I also wonder how many domestic fires are needed before the fire brigade suggests running the dishwasher/washing machine/tumble drier when you are at home rather than timing it to run at cheaper times of the day.

The cynic in me doesn't envisage bills dropping once they start selling our data to third party companies. Both Sky and Channel 4 (the biggest TV advertising agents) are considering paying them to work out what people are watching on their tellies.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

"We could save enough energy to power every home in Cardiff, Aberdeen & Manchester for a year, if we all got a smart meter."

I wonder how easy it is to find out what that totals?

This looked promising https://www.britishgas.co.uk/EnergyUsage/Usage_Comparison_City_Level/ but it isn't working right now - don't know if that's a blip or long term.

 

[JohnW2]

I also wonder how many domestic fires are needed before the fire brigade suggests running the dishwasher/washing machine/tumble drier when you are at home rather than timing it to run at cheaper times of the day.

If it ever happens (and I can't see it happening for a very long long), that charging of electric vehicles during the hours when most are asleep becomes very widespread, then it is quite possible that the 'cheap periods' will shift to times when people are generally awake -= which could help to address any such concerns of fire brigades.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

As has been hinted, the real 'big-brotherish' things that some people fear could not be usefully implemented until there was a very widespread deployment of 'smart appliances'. Particularly given that I'm not yet convinced that any such appliances yet exist, it is probably going to take many decades (if it ever happens at all) before they enjoy 'widespread deployment'. I have no realistic expectation of still being around if/when that day comes, and I suspect that the same is probably true for many of you reading this.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've never had a fire in any appliance in over 40 years of use. I wouldn't expect to start getting them because of smart meters.

It's a shame that genuine concerns about security are going to be nudged i the "file under tinfoil hat" direction by people banging on about the health risks of the comms and saying things like "An attacker who controls the meter also controls the meter’s software, allowing him to cause it to literally explode."

 

[JohnW2]

It's not really 'smart' meters which are the issue here but, rather, dual/multiple tariffs (which, together with {non-smart} dual/multiple tariff meters, could be widely deployed without the meters having to be 'smart') - and, even if such events are very rare, any change which encouraged people to use 'potentially-fire-starting' appliances more often at times when they were usually asleep would presumably increase risks (of fires, and of the consequences of fires).

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't have a "smart meter" and don't want one but I wonder how much more I am paying to subsidise the roll out of them.

Eleven billion pounds (and rising) divided by the number of premises - 30 million ?

11,000,000,000 / 30,000,000 = 367 pounds

 

[JohnW2]

I wonder how easy it is to find out what that totals?

See rough figures here ....

Very rough figures ...
There are about 27 million households in UK, hence £11/household/year equates to around £297 million per year
Cardiff has about 126,000 households, with an average electricity spend of ~£700 per household per annum. Household electricity costs in Cardiff are therefore around £93 million per year
Aberdeen has about 107,000 households, with an average electricity spend of ~£700 per household per annum. Household electricity costs in Aberdeen are therefore around £75 million per year
Manchester has about 277,000 households (***), with an average electricity spend of ~£670 per household per annum. Household electricity costs in Manchester are therefore around £152 million per year.

£93m + £75m + £152m = £320m - not a million miles away from £297m.

*** we don't know whether they are talking about Manchester city, Greater Manchester or what.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

An excellent investment to save £11 (and falling) per year.

The problem is, of course, that the govt do not dare tell the truth about why they are doing this.

 

[JohnW2]

The thing which confuses me is that people (and the media) are currently fussing about exactly how much saving in energy costs (they think - and goodness knows why!) would result from smart meters, yet I thought what so many people appear concerned about is a belief that smart meters will lead to a rise in their energy costs.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1) They are being promoted entirely on the basis of saving consumers money.

2) The cost of them has already caused a rise in energy costs.

3) The real reasons for installing them are to facilitate price-based demand management (i.e. to be able to increase prices to drive down demand) and to ration usage. Neither of which can they tell the public.

 

[JohnW2]

"increasing prices (to drive down demand)" can only be done with the consent of the regulator, and if the regulator were prepared to allow a certain 'average price increase per household' with smart metering (and potentially complex tariffs), I don't see why they would not be equally prepared to allow the same 'average price increase per household" without smart metering.
As I see it, given a particular view of the regulator as regards the maximum acceptable 'average price increase per household' (and forgetting about the very-far-off world full of smart appliances - if it ever comes), the only difference smart metering can make is to impose tariffs which would result in their being some winners and some losers amongst customers, with 'the average' being the maximum price acceptable to the regulator.