Faulty Economy 7 timer

[typonaut]

I have an Economy 7 system, the clock and meter are approximately 30 years old. Recently the clock has been gaining approximately 2.5 hours a day – so effectively you never know when the Economy 7 mode is going to be on or off.

My electricity supplier is Bulb. I contacted them two weeks ago via email, and received no response. I called them today and tell them the E7 clock is faulty, and they say "Oh, it says so in your email"!?

Anyway, they say they'll get back to me. Now I've received an email from them saying they cannot do anything abbout it because there is a shortage of E7 meters, and I might have to wait months.

If it were the middle of Summer I probably wouldn't care less, but it's this time of year that we've got the E7 heating on. The meter seems to be ok, but the timer (which is a separate device) is faulty.

Cant I get an electrician to sort this out and then bill Bulb?

 

[flameport]

Cant I get an electrician to sort this out

No, because the equipment isn't yours to repair, or arrange repairs on.
Doing so could be classed as tampering with the supply and/or attempting to get electricity for free.

 

[typonaut]

So, I have to wait for "months" (their term) to get it sorted out?

How can there be a shortage of meters!?

 

[crystal ball]

Depending on the timings it may be to your advantage

 

[typonaut]

It may be to my advantage at some point in the cycle, but given that the timings change on a day to day basis it's currently just chaotic.

Bulb tried to argue that I wouldn't use any more electricity, but that isn't true because I have to put the storage heaters up higher due their sometimes having been on a long time before I want them on. Conversely it is sometime too hot and I can't do anything about it other than open windows. And it averages eight cycles a week rather than seven.

 

[JohnW2]

.... Now I've received an email from them saying they cannot do anything abbout it because there is a shortage of E7 meters, and I might have to wait months. .... The meter seems to be ok, but the timer (which is a separate device) is faulty.

Hmmm - well I presume that you will be telling them that. Even if there were a shortage of E7 meters (which seems unlikely), it sounds as if it's only a standalone timeswitch which is the problem.

I'm rather surprised that they have not tried to persuade you to have a 'smart' meter, and there's presumably no shortage of those!

Kind Regards, John

 

[typonaut]

Now the dopes are trying to tell me that they only deal with meters, and the timing clock is my responsibility!? How do they expect an analogue meter to run without a timing clock!?

 

[typonaut]

I think the "smart" meter issue is their problem. They have a notice on their website that there is a shortage of these for E7, but I don't need a smart meter, I just want the timer fixed/replaced.

 

[JohnW2]

Now the dopes are trying to tell me that they only deal with meters, and the timing clock is my responsibility!? How do they expect an analogue meter to run without a timing clock!?

Well, even if that were the case (which I doubt), it would still need involvement of the supplier (or their designated 'meter operator') and/or DNO to break the seals an d isolate the timeswitch so that it could be operated on (by anyone)!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I think the "smart" meter issue is their problem. They have a notice on their website that there is a shortage of these for E7, but I don't need a smart meter, I just want the timer fixed/replaced.

As far as metering/billing is concerned, the whole point of a smart meter is that it can cope with any tariff, including ones far more complex than E7.

It sounds as if your problem is not so much with the metering but with the fact that this faulty timeswitch is (directly or indirectly) switching your storage heaters on and off - is that the case?

Kind Regards, John

 

[typonaut]

Sent them this photo, pointing out the seal on the timer and the fact that it has "LEB" sticker on it. Also pointed out to them that if it were my device I could just set the E7 timings to whatever I want, which would defeat the purpose of the tariff.

 

[typonaut]

It sounds as if your problem is not so much with the metering but with the fact that this faulty timeswitch is (directly or indirectly) switching your storage heaters on and off - is that the case?

As far as I can tell the timer switches the meter from the high rate to the low rate. Although it is obviously a separate device, it is intrinsic to the E7 system - ie how does the meter know when to switch over if there is no timer?

When it switches all the electricity in the flat goes through either (one of) the high or low rate, there aren't separate timers/switches for the storage heaters or immersion heater - there's just a separate circuit that gets switched in.

I've just come to realise that this is probably fairly inefficient, as the water and storage heaters could probably be fully charged in two hours, rather than repeated heating/cooling cycles over seven hours.

 

[JohnW2]

Sent them this photo, pointing out the seal on the timer and the fact that it has "LEB" sticker on it.

Quite so.

Also pointed out to them that if it were my device I could just set the E7 timings to whatever I want, which would defeat the purpose of the teriff.

Of course, if it were even a half-modern (i.e. electronic) meter, it would not have an external timeswitch, so that issue wouldn't arise. I last had a meter and timeswitch like yours about 25 years ago.

E7 meters do not necessarily have a switched output for storage heaters - mine doesn't. If I had storage heaters (which I don't) I would have to ninstall my own time switches to switch the storage heaters on/of at times corresponding to the cheap rate period of the tariff.

Kind Regards, John

 

[crystal ball]

As far as I can tell the timer switches the meter from the high rate to the low rate. Although it is obviously a separate device, it is intrinsic to the E7 system - ie how does the meter know when to switch over if there is no timer?

When it switches all the electricity in the flat goes through either (one of) the high or low rate, there aren't separate timers/switches for the storage heaters or immersion heater - there's just a separate circuit that gets switched in.

I've just come to realise that this is probably fairly inefficient, as the water and storage heaters could probably be fully charged in two hours, rather than repeated heating/cooling cycles over seven hours.

Yes it does, using neutral switching I recall, low rate comes on as do the heaters at the set time on the timeswitch, that meter looks very old, when was it last swapped?

 

[JohnW2]

As far as I can tell the timer switches the meter from the high rate to the low rate. Although it is obviously a separate device, it is intrinsic to the E7 system - ie how does the meter know when to switch over if there is no timer?

As I've just written, electronic meters have their own built-in timer.

When it switches all the electricity in the flat goes through either (one of) the high or low rate, there aren't separate timers/switches for the storage heaters or immersion heater - there's just a separate circuit that gets switched in.

That's the usual situation with E7 these days - i.e. everything in the building gets cheap electricity during the off-peak period. However, what is switching your storage heaters on/off at the appropriate times 0 that is presumably being controlled, directly or indirectly, by that timeswitch (unless you have a separate one)?

I've just come to realise that this is probably fairly inefficient, as the water and storage heaters could probably be fully charged in two hours, rather than repeated heating/cooling cycles over seven hours.

Both water heating and the storage heaters have thermostats to deal with that - they will only use as much electricity as is needed to achieve the required temperature (of water or 'bricks').

Kind Regards, John